Gaza 70% Destroyed

Most of the strip’s 36 hospitals are shut down, and only eight are accepting patients. Citrus trees, olive groves and greenhouses have been obliterated. More than two-thirds of its schools are damaged.

The destruction resembles that left by Allied bombing of German cities during World War II. “The word ‘Gaza’ is going to go down in history along with Dresden and other famous cities that have been bombed,” said Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago and the author of a history of aerial bombing. “What you’re seeing in Gaza is in the top 25% of the most intense punishment campaigns in history.”
20,000 dead Palestinians.

Still not enough.


As offered before, the earmarks of an ethnic cleansing operation, by means of making Gaza uninhabitable. The Pals are being crammed tighter and tighter into Rafah. while that city is also bombed.


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And still, Hamas refuses to surrender.



Said to the husband at the start of all this…and the alleged failure of Israeli intelligence with the Hamas attack. A bigger version of Churchill and Coventry … and we’ll see another Dresden.

Don’t be ridiculous, he said.

Nope. And you wouldn’t expect them too. Massive aerial bombing against civilians is a very weak tool militarily. It doesn’t really depress the morale of civilian populations very much if at all, and the costs are high.

John Kenneth Galbraith did a study of the effect of strategic bombing of Germany in WWII and concluded the results were mixed, at best.

In another thread there is a discussion of US bombing of Cambodia. Somewhere between 100K-200K civilians were killed with negligible effect on the war.

Killing civilians on a large scale, just isn’t a persuasive tactic, it seems.


Makes the “War Leaders” feel powerful, even RIGHTEOUS, and soothes enraged populaces.

The stupidity of war in our time ought to be obvious. All the more reason for utterly destroying Putin and his crowd, to make a point onto the future. And I would like to erect public piszoirs designed so we can all drench statues of LBJ, Nixon, W Bush, and others (Cheney Sr) until their crimes are forgotten.

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How many were members of Hamas? Don’t believe much of what they say.


In one night more people died in Dresden. The Israelis are forcing the Syrians out. Neither side wants a two-state solution regardless of American presidents putting up a good front. The front is to get oil from other Muslim nations. Hamas will never stop the fight. This is not working. Gazans need to leave.

It is a hypocritical concept to say things like this about Israel when you won’t say it about the Syrian Civil War or the Yemen Civil War. Just feeding into the scapegoating by the Muslim dictators.


And Hamburg, Tokyo, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima.

Moral of the story, don’t start wars you can’t win.

Reading recommendation for 2024, The Holy Quran. I got about halfway through decades ago.

The Captain


I thought the post you deleted was spot on.

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The deleted you are looking at was the beginning of a draft that got botched by computer error. The other is still in place.

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I am surprised that Friedman wrote a column I agree with 98% on an extremely fraught complex difficult subject.

Worth a read or two, which is difficult in tragedy but all the more important.

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If you don’t have access to the NYT google

What Is Happening to Our World? nyt

that gives you access.

Friedman wrote about present day dictators:

This is now a common strategy for consolidating and holding power forever by a single political faction and disguising it with an ideology of resistance. It’s no wonder they all support one another.

Nothing new, you can read about it in 1984 by George Orwell.

Good article! How to reeducate Hamas?

The Captain


Yes, the new world order envisioned back in the '90s (‘the end of history’) didn’t last long.

Can’t say as I agree with his statement that “This is why I referred to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as our first true world war, and why I feel that Hamas’s war with Israel is in some ways our second true world war.” Friedman sometimes lives too much in the present and feels that things are different now.

Another example would be his McDonalds peace theory, while a reading of the economic situation leading up to WW1 shows that the countries of Europe had deep economic interconnections.


A rebuttal to the Friedman op-ed piece by Dr James J Zogby

The reasons for the Palestinian Territories’ lack of development go back 10 years before the fateful elections of 2005 that brought Hamas to power. I know because I was there and watched this disaster unfolding in real time. While Palestinians were not without fault, it is cruel to blame them for Israeli policies that deliberately strangled the Palestinian economy and the failure of the US to take effective measures to counter them.

From 1993 to 1996, I co-chaired a project, Builders for Peace, launched by Vice President Gore to promote U.S. investment in the Occupied Territories.

In the months that followed, it became clear that the Israelis were unwilling to allow Palestinians or their US partners to import raw materials or export finished products without Israeli control or an Israeli middleman. As a result, the deals we had lined up collapsed.

The problem ran deeper. One day I received a call from an official at the U.S. Department of Agriculture. There was a shipment of 50,000 flower bulbs the U.S. had tried to get into Gaza. The bulbs sat awaiting Israeli clearance for so long that they rotted. Israel didn’t want competition for its own flower exports. The Agriculture Department had enough funds for another shipment of bulbs but didn’t want to risk the expenditure if the result would be the same.

Zogby appealed to the US president explaining the dire economic straits of the Palestinians including the fact that 60% plus of Gaza Palestinians were unemployed. That pressure should be applied upon Israel to ease the reins of control.

While President Clinton and the Senators expressed support, our recommendation that Israel be pressured to let go of the reins and allow Palestinians to breathe and grow was rejected by the administration’s “peace team.” They argued that any pressure on Israel would impede their negotiating efforts.

All this happened in the 1990s, not 2005. In a real sense, Hamas didn’t create the mess; they inherited and preyed off of the despair that was left to them by Israel’s suffocating control and US neglect and acquiescence. Hamas handled it badly, to be sure, but the reason why Gaza didn’t become Singapore, which is what Yasser Arafat had set as his North Star, or Dubai, had less to do with Hamas’ choices and more to do with those who failed Palestinians and peace.


The Israelis have long said there is no one to negotiate with.

There are no elections among the Palestinians of any meaning. Not even in 2006 for Hamas. Because there are no scheduled later election shift and validate a form of fair government among them.

That stems from an all or nothing military economic system like Egypts or the Muslim Brotherhood.

There has been nothing for Israel to work with. That is not Israel’s fault. The American public is not fully cognizant of that. It shapes Israel’s tactics and strategies by necessity.

Any peace deal struck is worthless tomorrow. Irony Rabin was killed but Arafat knew he was even more at risk. Both of them got down the runway but Arafat was truly very reluctant. Clinton had to force him with cajoling. The Israeli government is bureaucratic enough to have survived Rabin’s murder and worked with Arafat. Instead, Arafat ran away and Netanyahu was proven right.

Again prove Netanyahu wrong and the Israelis can change.

Hamas is getting slaughtered and won’t surrender. Even stop firing shots. Never mind surrender. Literally walk away and this stops. Yeah, it might take a few days for the Israelis to think hey there is no resistance we can stop now. There are huge forces in the Israeli military not to shoot. Always have been. The Oct 7 thing is now in the rearview mirror. Hamas only needs to stop. Not even lay down the arms.

Hamas is totally outgunned. They are not fighting for anything. There is no freedom with their ideology. There is no extra land because even at square one the Israelis have the power. Without peace and recognition, the Israelis can not deal better with the Gazans.

Hamas can peace for a lot.

Hamas does not care they are outgunned–or anything else. In their opinion, they are fighting a “holy war” and the ONLY choices are to fight and destroy the enemy (by any means) or die. Still waiting for you to explain, in detail, how SURRENDER by Hamas fits into their ideology.


I do not buy that. I think the rank and file believe.

Back at Harvard and Yale professors say to tell them you believe in god to lead them.

That is not lost on a single leader who has ever led. It truly is hugely insulting to lead people in that way. It is the most common form of leadership.

Like I said there is no freedom. The boys are put on the front for no reason at all.

You do not have to “buy it”. The Palestinians DO.

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Thanks tj,

Zogby’s piece is a powerful full throated response to Friedman’s.

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