German horse trading (cow trading?)

A Nuclear Horse Trade for Germany?
www.wsj.com/articles/a-nuclear-horse-trade-for-germany-autob…
This is what passes for an energy-security debate in Berlin these days. Politicians and some pronuclear media outlets are floating the idea of a grand horse trade (Kuhhandel, or “cow trade” in German) that would see the lives of the country’s three remaining nuclear reactors extended after all, in exchange for introducing a highway speed limit to save gasoline and diesel.

Like many political compromises, this would leave everyone unhappy. The free-market Free Democratic Party, part of the ruling coalition, and the opposition Christian Democrats enthuse over nuclear power but hate a speed limit. The eco-left Green Party, also part of the coalition, hates nuclear but loves the speed limit. Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s Social Democrats, nominally the ruling party, can’t decide what they think about either.

This is no way to protect energy security in Europe’s largest economy. It’s clear on the merits that Germany can’t afford to scrap its remaining nuclear power plants, which provide about 6% of its electricity. Europe is facing a severe gas shortage thanks to Vladimir Putin’s energy blackmail, and coal and nuclear are the only alternatives to increasingly unreliable Russian supplies of natural gas.

DB2

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The ugly truth the autobahn is a massive fuel waster.

Not sure the German public will be upset. That could go either way.

Complaining in the US is a national past time. We are different.

It is a smart trade. I hope they make it. It would be a sign of sanity in difficult times.

david fb

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outlets are floating the idea of a grand horse trade (Kuhhandel, or “cow trade” in German) that would see the lives of the country’s three remaining nuclear reactors extended after all, in exchange for introducing a highway speed limit to save gasoline and diesel.

That would still be too sane. It actually comes with the added condition by the Greens that no new nuclear fuel will be ordered, but merely the still remaining fuel ‚stretched‘ to last over a longer period.

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added condition by the Greens that no new nuclear fuel will be ordered, but merely the still remaining fuel ‚stretched‘

Ohhhhh! Gosh. How insightful and penetrating. Yes, Cinderella’s fairy godmother will come, and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QeYtv1OPs

david f
(The Greens world wide were horribly partially originated by stoned out flower power hippies and never recovered)

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It actually comes with the added condition by the Greens that no new nuclear fuel will be ordered, but merely the still remaining fuel ‚stretched‘ to last over a longer period.

I don’t know the specifics of the German reactors, but that would not be easy to do. The only way would be to reduce power right now, to maybe 50%, to “stretch” how long the fuel lasts. They aren’t going to generate any more MWh, just produce the same amount over a longer time.

If the concern is getting through the cold winter, perhaps they should temporarily shut down the plants now, and then restart in late autumn. There is only so much energy they can squeeze out of the fuel if they can’t order any new.

  • Pete
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The only way would be to reduce power right now, to maybe 50%, to “stretch” how long the fuel lasts. They aren’t going to generate any more MWh, just produce the same amount over a longer time.

That sounds like pretty much like their plan.

Bundestag Vice President Katrin Göring-Eckardt (Greens) does not rule out that nuclear power plants in Germany could run longer than legally required. In the ARD television show “Anne Will” she said that if there was a “real emergency” in which hospitals could no longer work, then the fuel rods would have to be discussed.

The terms of the three German nuclear power plants still in operation would not be extended beyond the time anchored in the Atomic Energy Act, said Göring-Eckardt. Rather, the ARD program spoke of a stretching operation, with the existing fuel rods being used longer than previously planned. According to the Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology, the fuel elements would “burn down” more slowly. …

https://www.kiratas.com/2022/07/25/nuclear-power-green-polit…

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I don’t know the specifics of the German reactors, but that would not be easy to do. The only way would be to reduce power right now, to maybe 50%, to “stretch” how long the fuel lasts. They aren’t going to generate any more MWh, just produce the same amount over a longer time.

My understanding of nuclear power economics is that it costs the same to run the plant at 50% or 100%. If they are going to extended the timeline anyway, it seems like they might as well refuel (if that is still possible).

Re “cow trading.”

I know I’m now “old-old” and a hard-headed Irishman to boot.

But I’m damned if I understand why a reasonable citizenship wouldn’t use all the available sources of energy - to the max possible - when faced with wartime pressures and a looming severe winter.

Put this “greenie” stuff on the back burner until you get through the crisis. Has Europe government lost its freaking mind, especially Germany?

Use what’s left of nuclear capability. Use whatever Groningen gas is available - low level earth tremors aren’t going to cause disaster. Import what gas you can. Burn very dirty lignite to stay warm. Dammit survive!!

You can sort out all the climate change issues when the crisis passes and sanity returns. It isn’t like your past strategy has proven to be workable.

Time for a rethink - not a “cow trade.” Tell the greenies to eat wind and solar.

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But I’m damned if I understand why a reasonable citizenship wouldn’t use all the available sources of energy - to the max possible - when faced with wartime pressures and a looming severe winter.

Yup. Winter is coming.
I’m in the ‘all of the above’ camp.

DB2

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From June 19th:

Germany to limit use of gas for electricity production
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/germany-limit-gas-…
Germany’s economy minister said Sunday that the country will limit the use of natural gas for electricity production amid concerns about possible shortages caused by a cut in supplies from Russia.

Economy Minister Robert Habeck said that Germany will try to compensate for the move by increasing the burning of coal…

“That’s bitter, but it’s simply necessary in this situation to lower gas usage,” said Habeck, a member of the environmentalist Green party.

DB2

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Dammit survive!!

I wonder which is worse, a bad Winter in Portugal or a good Winter in Venezuela…

The Captain

Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

Re “cow trading.”

I know I’m now “old-old” and a hard-headed Irishman to boot.

But I’m damned if I understand why a reasonable citizenship wouldn’t use all the available sources of energy - to the max possible - when faced with wartime pressures and a looming severe winter.

Tex, I think I found the problem with your plan … German coalition government?

Seriously I’m not sure which is worse, Germany’s coalitions or our unfathomable neighbours with 51 major independent governments to our south? }};-@

Not Me

Oh, apparently Putin and Gazprom have reduced gas flow to Europe again … anyone surprised?

Tim <time to figure out which pieces of that beautiful German wood furniture will be available to be burned for heat?>

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The only reason I have come up with is that a significant part of the German government WANTS to be in the position where Putin dictates to them. As to why one can only speculate.

Seriously I’m not sure which is worse, Germany’s coalitions or our unfathomable neighbours with 51 major independent governments to our south? }};-@

Not Me

If not you then who?

To understand the current situation you must remember FLU23B:

Fundamental Law of the Universe 23B
Every organism, from the lowest ameba to the smartest human does what they perceive to be in their own best interest.

Looked through with that lens all becomes understandable.

Every organism, from the lowest ameba to the smartest human does what they perceive to be in their own best interest.

======================================================

Like the following people?

Taking heroin/fentanyl/cocaine
Smoking/vaping nicotine
Killing children with AR-15s in schools
Starting forest fires
Raping and murdering little girls/women around the world
Catholic priests sexually abusing boys
Teachers at residential schools for native Americans/Canadians sexually abusing boys/girls
Hitler and his followers killing millions of civilians in Death Camps
Stalin and his followers killing millions of civilians everywhere
Committing suicide

I could go on for hours listing all flawed perceptions in what is their best interest.

Jaak

I could go on for hours listing all flawed perceptions in what is their best interest.

And then you could go into the list of people who seem to put the best interest of others ahead of their own.

Millionaire/Billionaire philanthropists
The Mother Theresa’s of the world
One spouse taking care of another after some injury or illness or even plain ol’ old age.

One might get the impression that the statement, “Every organism, from the lowest ameba to the smartest human does what they perceive to be in their own best interest” is actually wrong. At least when applied to humans.

It might even be a way to rationalize selfish behavior.

–Peter

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It might even be a way to rationalize selfish behavior.

Selfish behaviour is rational. Maximizing your portfolio is selfish behavior.

THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS
Ayn Rand 1964

https://aynrand.org/novels/the-virtue-of-selfishness/#otab-1…

The Captain

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It might even be a way to rationalize selfish behavior.

Selfish behaviour is rational. Maximizing your portfolio is selfish behavior.

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.” – Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, 1776

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Every organism, from the lowest ameba to the smartest human does what they perceive to be in their own best interest.

======================================================

Like the following people?

Taking heroin/fentanyl/cocaine
Smoking/vaping nicotine


Ayup!

The operative word in my sentence was/is perceive.

Whether what they “perceive” to be in their own best interest is in fact in their own best interest is immaterial.

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