Have companies actually moved off Zoom?

Longtime lurker, first time poster- quick thanks to everyone on this board especially Saul, you guys are simply awesome.

Friends of mine who know I’m heavily invested in ZM keep asking if “the companies switching from Zoom due to security concerns will hurt ZM’s revenue?” They cite the companies that have banned using Zoom, as well as the schools and districts that have done similarly.

To date, I have only seen reports of companies that don’t allow employees to use Zoom. However, I can’t seem to find any reports of companies that were using Zoom and actually switched providers. Shouldn’t that be the much bigger concern? And, if companies were cancelling subscriptions, wouldn’t those be the bigger headlines?

Long ZM

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Hi JustAName,
As far as I know you are correct. There have been NO announcements, that I’m aware of, of ANY enterprise who was a subscriber to Zoom switching off it to go to a different provider. Some school districts did, but they may not have been paying subscribers.
Saul

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I was under the same assumption. To me, this speaks volumes about the actual impact of the “privacy and security concerns”. The price now should reflect these concerns baked in, yet should have no material impact on their upcoming earnings. Not that it seems you need more of a reason to be all in, but it definitely provides me a sense of security.

Yes, and there have been major tech companies, who should know about these things, whose CEO’s have recently bragged on Zoom and how useful it is to their companies (the CEO’s of Oracle, Crowdstrike, Okta) and of course the MF, which isn’t a tech company, but certainly has tech knowledge and credibility, and uses Zoom all the time.
Saul

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There have been NO announcements, that I’m aware of, of ANY enterprise who was a subscriber to Zoom switching off it to go to a different provider.

Bloomberg has reported that Yuan himself has acknowledged that Tesla, Space-X, and the governments of Germany and Taiwan have switched away from Zoom. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-09/zoom-hope… ) This was 3 weeks ago.

Most companies won’t announce if they’re switching video conferencing providers. The data we have comes from reporters sleuthing to find internal memos at companies, for instance, this article from Tech Radar: https://www.techradar.com/news/more-top-companies-ban-zoom-f…

Among the latest organisations to block the use of Zoom are German industrial giant Siemens, which sent out an internal circular urging its employees to not use the tool for video conferencing, with Standard Chartered Bank also issuing a similar note to its staff.

Fortune (https://fortune.com/2020/04/23/zoom-backlash-daimler-bank-of… ) reports that Daimler, Ericsson, NXP, and Bank of America are either forbidding or warning employees against using Zoom because of concerns about its security. Interestingly, none of those were paying Zoom customers before (as Saul pointed out), so their intent was to prevent employees from using Zoom free accounts.

An article in American Banker (https://www.americanbanker.com/news/banks-grow-wary-of-zoom-… ) says a survey of the banking industry found that 12% of survey respondents have stopped using Zoom and 10% have reduced their usage, specifically citing that 56.6% of Visa employees said they have completely stopped using Zoom, as did 55.6% of American Express staff.

The other way we’d hear about a switch is if the new video conferencing provider thought they could get some marketing out of it and negotiated a better price for the switching company to make that public.

It appears WebEx is doing some of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0sF2K3GIpU

But, Saul’s point remains that we don’t know too much about paying customers switching away from Zoom; it does appear to be mostly companies not wanting their employees to use free Zoom accounts. This happened at my company well before Covid was a thing - my company simply hadn’t vetted Zoom and so didn’t want us to use it when they provided us with a site license for WebEx.

Even the American Banker article, notes:
Hunt says the concerns around videoconferencing security have been overblown.
“Companies are blacklisting Zoom, but not for the right reasons,” Hunt said. “I think it’s paranoia.”

But this is countered by https://www.cpomagazine.com/data-privacy/as-zoom-security-co…
Mark Bower (senior vice president at comforte AG) observes: “There should be no surprise organizations like SpaceX and NASA banned it immediately: they are regulated under ITAR rules, with extremely harsh violation risks including executive jail time for data leakage outside very tightly controlled ecosystems for national security control, data protection and access.

Zoom’s recent security push seems to be on the right track, so I’m holding onto my shares (small position) with the expectation that Zoom will get its security up to par and not shoot itself in the foot anymore.

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MF, which isn’t a tech company, but certainly has tech knowledge and credibility, and uses Zoom all the time.

Oh, I don’t agree, Saul. We are two full decades into the 21st century and MF’s board software still doesn’t let us edit a post or embed photos or in-place videos. Heck, I can’t even select some text and hit Ctrl-B to hold it. This is true for the paid services’ boards as well. As I type this I’m reminded of using AOL over dial-up.

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Every company establishes their own protocols on how they handle internal use of applications. I worked at a Fortune 50 enterprise. I can shed a little light on the process we used at that company before I retired. I have first hand experience with this as I was one of the people directly involved with the process. I also know from interactions with people who worked elsewhere that the process we used (or something similar) was relatively commonplace.

First off, there’s no such thing as a free product. Zoom offers a level of usage that has zero acquisition cost associated with it. Acquisition cost is just one component of the cost of ownership.

Based on a lot of bad experiences when PCs and associated s/w first became commonplace my employer put a process in place to control the acquisition and use of desktop software. Without going into much depth, the situation we experienced was that for the first time in history computers were cheap enough that virtually every manager had sufficient budget to go buy computers and software for their own unit. In short order, chaos prevailed. We soon had pockets of every brand of computers and every brand of software on the planet (maybe a little bit of hyperbole there, but not much).

Additional costs of ownership involve training and support as well as loss of negotiating power. There’s also the learning curve required to come up to speed when an employee moves from one unit to another which was a frequent occurrence. I won’t dwell on this. Use your imagination and then double it. It was out of control as there were a lot of employees engaged in office work.

We instituted a process whereby we reviewed availability of software in given domain. After review of product offerings a standard was declared. I might add that these reviews included factors you might not normally think of. Of course, we paid attention to the technical merits of competing products including comprehensive regression testing (an evaluation of how a new product behaves with respect to our established environment). But we also looked at existing vendor relationships, financial stability of the vendor, legal entanglements of the vendor, reviews of the vendor’s product plans and vision, ability to influence product decisions and other non-technical factors and probably of particular relevance to the question at hand, the cost of and potential barriers of transition to a different product. In most cases if there were technical standards (for example IEEE POSIX specifications for UNIX operating systems) we generally looked for compliance.

If, for example, Zoom had been adopted as a standard, a new competitor had quite a hurdle to overcome in order to unseat it. A somewhat better mousetrap would in most cases be insufficient in and of itself. Quoted, publicly available pricing might also be not as strong an incentive to change as you might imagine. Despite all the non-technical reviews I just mentioned, it was standard practice for our procurement folks to negotiate contracts that provided the vendor with some guarantees in exchange for special pricing (BTW, managers were barred from procuring their own computing products. All purchases had to be placed through the designated procurement agent). We well understood what we called the leapfrog of technical capabilities. Vendor X can do this, Vendor Y (our standard) didn’t do that. But because we had a seat at the table when it came to their development roadmap we knew in a few months they would roll out a revision that provided that functionality. And so it went, with different vendors exchanging places with respect to the feature set. Of course I’m not saying we never wavered once a standard was declared, but it took more than a competitor showing up with a comparable or even somewhat better product.

The remote meeting software standard at the company I worked at was Webex (at the time it provided desktop sharing, no live video, no audio which was handled with a separate conference call). Has Zoom displaced Webex? I have no idea, I retired about 10 years ago. Do they still have the standards review board? I don’t know that either, but I do know for certain that the IT unit I worked in (the Enterprise Architecture group) is still in existence so I feel confident in asserting that something like that review board is likely still in place.

All this boils down to suggesting that we temper our anxiety with respect to the rapidly evolving competitive landscape for video conferencing in support of enterprise needs (in many ways different than those of the general public). The security stumbles most likely did real damage to Zoom in the marketplace. Eric Juan is obviously sensitive to this and has taken aggressive action to address it, but the damage has been done, it can’t be undone. I imagine that cost Zoom some paying customers.

I mentioned in a previous post that Zoom should be watched very closely to see if they are experiencing customer erosion. If we see that taking place over a few consecutive quarters it deserves our attention. That might even indicate that it’s time to start reducing overly large positions. But, IMO there’s no immediate reason to abandon Zoom.

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A bit OT, but might be interesting for some:

Without going into much depth, the situation we experienced was that for the first time in history computers were cheap enough that virtually every manager had sufficient budget to go buy computers and software for their own unit. In short order, chaos prevailed.

I lived through this change as well. From a user perspective, what drove this change was precisely the ability for small groups in a company to move fast in adopting new technology. Instead of waiting for our slow, clodding and cumbersome IT department to get budget to run an evaluation, run that evaluation, write and publish the results, do deals and acquire equipment and software, we as users could just buy machines and software at ComputerLand or wherever, set them up and go. We didn’t need to run those big thick ethernet cables, get logins to corporate servers, etc., etc.

But we also looked at existing vendor relationships, financial stability of the vendor, legal entanglements of the vendor, reviews of the vendor’s product plans and vision, ability to influence product decisions and other non-technical factors…In most cases if there were technical standards (for example IEEE POSIX specifications for UNIX operating systems) we generally looked for compliance.

Yeah, we didn’t look at any of that. We wanted specifically to avoid all that. Would the software do what we needed/wanted now and was it affordable? If so, we bought it and didn’t look back. If we had to migrate to something else in a couple of years, fine - we were replacing PCs quite regularly then and we’d do a hand-me-down thing where old computers were still good enough for some uses/users.

So, what looked like chaos to IT was to us quick progress with less overhead in getting work done. It took decades before Microsoft added enough controls to Windows to enable IT departments to lock down employees’ personal machines - but that was done in the name of security, not in application choice. I understand companies have all sorts of concerns and there are things like data retention policies that just weren’t important at all back then. Those were the days.

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…but that was done in the name of security, not in application choice.

Actually, both. Our company several years ago had a big push to be certain only licensed software was on our machines. I think as part of software standardization, but also legitimate fear of lawsuits. I used to have IRFANVIEW on my work PC. No more. Individuals can use it for free, but companies have to pay or get sued. They didn’t give me the option to get a licensed version of the program, they just made me get rid of it.

1poorguy

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Something similar is still standard. My role at a high-tech company is to supervise workflow, integration and how data flows between departments. We write our own software, use open-source software or integrate 3rd party software (sometimes a blend of all three). We are also, necessarily, extremely agile, often pushing the limits of software. We see various levels of auditing. For example, there is one piece of software that most people would use today but it would take $1M and a team of 3-5 people 6 months to get it going. In juxtaposition of this, there is an open source tool that can be used alongside our other tools, with no integration, which we can go from request to install and in use in a matter of hours. For that first one we absolutely look at the potential longevity of the company for support and such. For the later we don’t care at all since we can grab the whole source code repository and take it in house, or become active contributors if alive but slow to evolve.

For something like Zoom though, which is more of a configuration task to integrate, I doubt it is a huge deal. It would require minimal due diligence, aside from security (we have a formal certification to adhere to in our industry). As long as the equipment tests ok and the purchase is approved, it should get in. While we haven’t approached the physical room upgrade, it only took a week to unleash Zoom via GSuite and have it used widely.

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