Apparently, January is, historically, not peak fire season. Maintenance on facilities needs to be done. So, the maintenance was scheduled outside of peak fire season. Seems the media is trying really hard to make a story here.
Steve
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I think it is good to get to the root cause. I don’t think any amount of water would have stopped this because copters and planes could not fly in the winds. Maintenance is always needed, things break. If they didn’t shut down the power lines, Why? When it gets really windy up in the mountains the Electrical Company here always shuts down the power lines. People scream about it, Maybe they don’t have enough political clout?
True, the Pacific Palisades reservoir was down for maintenance. The cover that keeps added chemicals from evaporating was torn and needed to be replaced. However, the very high winds and high risks were known days ahead of time. Water could have been pumped in ahead of time to partially fill the reservoir in case it would be needed – apparently some 10-15 million gallons.
That was a planning failure, but the bigger one was the power in the hill areas was not turned off.
We know that the fire started around 10:30 AM on Tuesday. The GOES visible satellite image at that time is shown below and you can see the smoke plume from a single fire.
Using Google Maps we can easily identify that spot, just east of the Summit Community…What do we find at the location where the fire started? Power lines. Hung on wood structures.
There is other evidence. The wonderful Ting power sensor network noted disturbances in the electrical power system in the neighborhood just prior to the fire.
The big question is why the Los Angeles power authorities did not de-energize all the power lines on the hills.
DB2
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The free market used to handle it, but then insurance companies started not offering coverage in risky areas or charging so much that many people could not afford it. If they have a mortgage, having insurance is a requirement, so, what should they do if no one offers it or offers it at an unaffordable price? Answer: the government steps in … not a great solution, but what else?
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Hey !! The fire reads the paper and gets real news as a result. And planned accordingly. Some did NOT.
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You mean Southern California Edison(Edison International) . Let’s not forget the power isn’t provided by the government because that would be wrong. It is provided by a public company.
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Would a power cutoff call be made by Edison, or by the System Administrator?
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In my area it is done by the Electric Company otherwise they would blame the government for not doing their job. The way it goes is government gets no credit but gets all the blame. I suspect Southern California Edison, if their power lines were the cause of the fire, are going to have a very large bill to pay.
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Yes, but don’t forget the LADWP.
I’m old enough to remember when PG&E (Northern California) had to declare bankruptcy. SoCal Edison may travel the same road. Don’t know about LADWP.
DB2
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From the Cal PUC:
In 2012, the CPUC ruled that California Public Utilities Code Sections 451 and 399.2(a) give the electric IOUs authority to shut off the electric power to protect public safety. This allows the electric IOUs (San Diego Gas & Electric, Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, Liberty Utilities, Bear Valley Electric Service, and PacifiCorp) to shut off power to prevent catastrophic wildfires when strong winds, heat events, and related conditions are present.
That is consistent with what I remember about people howling when PG&E cut off their power proactively, during high wind events.
Steve
1 Like
They do not serve the Palisades though. So did any of LADWP areas burn? From what I can find out the LADWP only serves the City of Los Angeles.
That tells me they can make their own decisions.
Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure
is crucial and
underplanned,
undervalued,
under ever greater stress.
And we aint gonna pay and so we are going to endure ever greater catastrophes until we reform our politics. We do not have the time, nor patience, nor even the public education to do that.
So, we ARE gonna pay, and big time.
d fb
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Indeed they do. Pacific Palisades is a neighborhood of Los Angeles and is serviced by the LADPW. Check out this map which shows the outages in their territory which extends almost up to Santa Clarita and out to Simi Valley.
Well, Los Angeles has been wrong before.
DB2
It looks like it might be in both of their areas.
It started outside SCE’s area
The most notable current events are the Palisades, Eaton and Hurst fires. The Palisades Fire began Tuesday morning; the reported area of origin is not in Southern California Edison’s service area. The Eaton Fire began Tuesday afternoon in SCE’s service area. SCE has transmission facilities on the east side of Eaton Canyon. SCE’s distribution lines immediately to the west of Eaton Canyon were de-energized well before the reported start time of the fire, as part of SCE’s Public Safety Power Shutoff (PSPS) program. SCE is currently conducting a review of the event. The Hurst Fire began late Tuesday evening. While the reported ignition site is within the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power’s service area, SCE has transmission facilities near the reported ignition site, and the company is currently conducting a review of the event.
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I know Bob missed the point.
Just helping Bob.
The city of Los Angeles has its own power utility, LADWP, which is separate from Southern California Edison.
It’s not a bright line at the city limits - nothing is every really that clean. And I’m sure there are interconnections between the two.
I’m not going to look up exactly who serves which area, but its pretty likely that the DWP serves some of the fire areas.
In terms of power shut offs during high winds, the two utilities have different underlying motivations. SCE is going to lean towards protecting its shareholders and cut power earlier. DWP is probably going to lean towards keeping the service on. There are technical issues involved with shedding load in this situation. Mainly, you have to be able to cut production to match the lower load. That’s easier to do in a larger utility like SCE than it is in a smaller one like LADWP.
—Peter
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No, I was just trying to point out that buyandhold had his facts wrong about electrical utilities in the LA area, and so his sarcastic comment went awry.
DB2
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Bob,
You are not comprehending things. The supply lines are the problem.
The main wires that supply electricity to Los Angeles include the Pacific DC Intertie, the Boulder-LA Transmission lines, and the Scattergood-Olympic Cable A Transmission Project:
- Pacific DC Intertie
This high voltage direct current (HVDC) line transmits electricity from the Pacific Northwest to the Los Angeles area. It originates near the Columbia River in Oregon and connects to the Sylmar Converter Station north of Los Angeles.
- Boulder-LA Transmission lines
Built between 1933 and 1936, these lines carried 287,000-volt conductors from the Boulder power plant to El Cajon Pass, and then to Los Angeles.
- Scattergood-Olympic Cable A Transmission Project
This 11.4-mile underground line starts in West Los Angeles and connects to the larger high-transmission grid throughout the city.
The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) also operates four natural gas-fired generating stations within the city, and the Castaic Power Plant, a pumped storage facility.
Leap, I am not comprehending you. Are you saying that the power lines from the Colorado River started the Palisades fire???
DB2