Bob,
What is the source for that?
Ah, hereâs the link:
Some people, myself included, wouldnât call that a âlong driveâ. 700 miles in a few days? Thatâs called commuting. 3000 miles in a couple of weeks? Thatâs an average of 225 miles a day for 14 days. Peanuts.
When I take a long drive, Iâm knocking out 400-500 miles in a day. LA to Phoenix - 350 miles in one day. LA to Seattle - 1100 miles in 2 1/2 days. (Sacramento, first day - 400 miles. Eugene, OR, second day - 450 miles). Of course, there are some breaks as you do these, but theyâre short and to the point. Usually carry a cooler with some simple lunches so we can keep rolling. And these arenât just made-up trips. These are real world drives Iâve done multiple times. The trip to Seattle Iâve done probably a dozen times or more for my wifeâs annual family reunion. We donât go every year, but she got antsy if we missed 2 years in a row.
Some of these are potentially doable with an extended range Tesla (claimed 400 mile range). But probably not doable at the 70-75 MPH speeds Iâm driving on the interstates, which is the posted speed limits - not the actual speed most folks drive.
Iâm getting from here to there to spend a few days at the destination with family and friends. Yes, Iâve done the more leisurely trips. But itâs not always possible due to time constraints with work and vacation time.
Iâm sure itâs possible to carefully plan a proper long road trip around fast charging. But thatâs still going to involve at least a one hour stop for charging, and even that assumes an open charger.
Plus - I still canât get my sonâs motorized wheelchair into any Tesla.
âPeter
PS - Your unlimited free supercharging is no longer a thing. It was last offered in 2020. Youâve got to pick up a qualified used model S or X to get it today.
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400 miles in a Tesla that has a range or 300-350 miles is fairly easy. You only need to stop once, mid trip, for about 15-20 minutes. So longer than a gas/restroom/snack stop but not excessively. You do have to plan a hotel stop that has a destination charger (max 22 kw, so a free full charge in about 3-4 hours overnight). Or you need another 30 min Supercharger stop in the destination area at dinner or breakfast the next day. But then at ~70 mph you are only driving about 6 hours per day. This doesnât seem like a rushed trip where an extra 30 minutes matters much or canât be overlapped with one meal per day.
One thing people have found is that it is better to charge twice per day every 3-4 hours for ~15 minutes rather than think full charge of an hour once per day since the charging rate is higher between 20% - 80% of full. Of course this only works if you have lots of choices of where to charge. Roughly, I see ~30 Superchargers between LA and Seattle on I5. And there are multiple locations with 20 and even 40 stalls.
So progress has been made over the last few years in terms of incrementally longer ranges and more places to fast charge and it will get better and better (rather than worse) going forward for other EV makes.
There is no solution to this any time soon that Iâve heard of. 
Mike
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Sure there is! Tesla isnât the only EV available, there are tons of models nowadays. If you need a vehicle that can fit a heavy wheelchair, you need to buy that kind of vehicle. Maybe a Ford F-150 Lightning might be able to handle it? Obviously with the required modifications for a lift, etc, but any production car would need those modifications.
Iâm waiting for an EV minivan to replace our ICE minivan. So far, there are no EV minivans, and unfortunately, minivans have dramatically dropped in popularity, so there may never be one. I may have to opt for some sort of truck instead. I have a cybertruck on order, but no hint of a delivery date yet.
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I wonder how big the VW Microbus EV will be?
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Chrysler makes a plug in hybrid minivan; about 40 miles on a charge after which it switches to gas. So for most driving it will be on electrons, for longer distances it will be on gas.
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I occasionally have to poke Tesla fanbois to remind them that a Tesla is not the perfect car for everyone. My wheelchair comment, in addition to being quite real, is also meant as a way to drag folks back down to earth.
The Lightning wouldnât fit my need to carry my son while in his chair. He might enjoy riding in the bed with the wind in his hair, but I suspect the local constables wonât approve. 
Iâm waiting for an electric full size van. Thatâs the most likely way to find an EV that works for the wheelchair. And that may actually happen, rather than a minivan, which I fear is dying as you suggest.
âPeter
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Not that can be charged at anywhere near 30 (working) fast chargers between LA and Seattle and at numerous destinations (hotels). Maybe in a couple of years the CCS chargers will be working and convenient enough to just jump in and drive (almost) anywhere on the Interstates without any real planning.
Mike
To be fair to the EV industry, as a whole about 1% of the US population are in wheel chairs of some kind (if my googling is right). And some of those at any one time are temporary after some medical procedure. And some, for example are elderly and can stand, but not walk long distances.
As you know, there are many levels of being in a wheel chair, too.
I did have a elderly family friend who passed ~year ago at 95. I was able to get her out of the chair and into my Tesla and put the wheel chair in the trunk, no problem. She was still doing most of her own yard work until about 92.
So I have no idea what percentage need a van, like you (Peter), but it is less than 1%. and no reason to even try and move to an EV van as an early adopter â the CO2 savings and initial cost donât really make senseâŚyet.
More googling says that the total market for wheel chair vans is about 40K/yr compared to 18M cars totalâŚso about 0.2%.
Mike
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Itâs more than just wheelchairs. Thatâs just my particular method of stirring the pot. There are many other situations where a Tesla wonât work. Got a family of 8? My lowly minivan will do, but you canât cram 8 people into a Tesla (I think the S with the rear seats only gets to 7, and you really have to not like the people you put into those seats).
My annoyance is the fanbois (a term I use in the most derogatory way possible here) who canât seem to comprehend any situation where a Tesla isnât the perfect car. Wheelchair? Just fold it up and put it in the trunk. (Even my sonâs manual chair - yes, he has two - doesnât fold. It has to be disassembled to fit into a trunk.) Tow my travel trailer? A Model X can tow! And CYBERTRUCK!!! (Coming in 2019. Or 2020. Or 2022. Or âŚ)
So when they show up, I like to cause a little problem. To point out their foibles in a fairly gentle, but effective way.
Its my form of entertainment. I donât get much entertainment these days, as I settle into grumpy old man mode.
âPeter
PS - I really would like an EV. They make a whole lot of sense for my suburban existence. But not at luxury car prices.
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Plug in hybrids, while nice, are not my desired solution. For a few reasons, some global, and some my own:
- About 25% of PHEV owners almost never plug them in. These use gasoline for all their driving.
- Another 25-35% only plug them in rarely. These use gasoline for most of their driving.
- PHEVs usually have very slow chargers and are really a PITA.
- They have the worst of both worlds, they have the battery, the plug, and the charging system. AND they have all those moving parts that require all sorts of lubrication, and eventually wear out, of an ICE.
- Personally, I would constantly be âworryingâ about the darn 40 mile limit and timing all my trips around that. No thanks. Iâd rather have a normal 300+ mile limit which makes the timing a lot easier (our EV with 150 mile range gets much different use than out EV with 350 mile range. The 150 mile range one is almost solely used for commuting.)
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I suppose I could lay it out in detail, but there were no days that were âaverageâ. There were driving days in which driving would be anywhere from 100 to 700 miles. Commuting is different. It all worked just fine.
But I see youâre just being purposely obstreperous. Iâll return this in kind by pointing out that you are utterly unqualified to have an opinion on how unsuitable a Tesla is for a road trip until youâve done a few road trips in a Tesla. How you imagine it works is nothing like how it does work. So youâre just spreading ignorance.
Of course it isnât. And it makes no particular sense to get in a new vehicle anyway, since youâre really just paying up front for âfreeâ electricity.
But since Iâve got it, it just makes things even better for me. Although sadly, unlike my original 2014 Model S, if I ever sell this one the free unlimited supercharging promotion doesnât transfer to the new owner.
-IGU-
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Then I will continue my obstreperousness by reminding you that you were touting something that no longer exists. Pumping up the image of Tesla with features that can no longer be obtained.
I donât believe I have to personally experience things to have valid opinions. It is perfectly possible (some might even say preferable) to learn from the experiences of others.
In that vein, which, if any, of these statements is not factual.
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The stated range of a Tesla on a single charge is between roughly 250 and 400 miles, depending on the model and options.
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You can add about 200 miles to your Tesla in about 15 minutes at a supercharger.
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Non-superchargers (220v AC) will add range at the rate of about 30 miles per hour of charging. Maybe up to 50 miles per hour in ideal conditions (moderate ambient temperatures, battery at about 30% - 50% state of charge, 50 amp AC rather than 30 or 40 amp)
Assuming those are all correct, which I believe them to be, the only reasonable way to significantly exceed the range of your particular Tesla (letâs call significant to be 150% of stated range) is to charge at a supercharger en route. Which is, one would suppose, the whole point of superchargers.
Therefore, to travel 700 miles in a day in your Tesla, you must plan your route around supercharging. Any other charging method would be impractical and potentially dangerous on the road, unless one also slept while charging.
Math: At non-superchargers, thatâs 400 mile range plus a minimum of 6 hours charging at 50 miles per hour of charge to get to 700 miles. Thatâs 10 hours driving at 70 MPH and 6 hours charging, for a minimum elapsed time of 16 hours. At superchargers, you get 400 mile range plus 20-25 minutes of charging (preferably in 2 separate sessions) so the 700 miles could be done in 7.5 hours of elapsed time.
Hereâs Teslaâs own map of supercharger locations in North America. Might have to scroll down to get to the map
If youâre on the East Coast, supercharging is a non-issue.Theyâre all over the place. Between there and the Mississippi river, youâve still got lots of choices, just need to be careful in the very rural areas. If youâre on the West Coast, youâre also OK in most of California. Washington is good on I-5 and Seattle. In Western Washington, stick to the interstates. In Oregon, your choices appear to be I-5, US 101 and Portland. In that vast expanse west of the Mississippi and east of the pacific states, you need to stay on the major interstates for east-west travel. North-south travel can probably hopscotch between the interstates. But forget lazy drives along side roads. For that, you had better stick to your carâs range and make sure youâve got 220v charging at your overnight stops.
What this all boils down to is very annoying Tesla owners who seem to write posts that suggest their experience is going to apply to everyone.
âPeter
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Sure free supercharging for life can still be obtained. Buy an old Tesla that has it. The older ones are transferable.
My wife also really likes the moonroof, which is no longer available. I suppose that mentioning that would be âpumpingâ? Youâre really reaching.
Of course. Women will generally recognize what youâre doing as âmansplainingâ.
So yeah, go ahead and tell people what their EV experience will be like. ICEsplaining?
Suffice it to say that your guesses and math are mostly irrelevant to actual travel in a Tesla. While it is indeed possible to get yourself in a bad situation, itâs about as likely as running out of gas. If youâre stupid and careless it can happen. Itâs more likely if youâre also inexperienced.
The reality tends to be that you just tell the navigation system where you want to go and it tells you the fastest way to get there, including supercharger stops. But in most areas you have some choices, and will likely end up choosing different from the suggestions. Because thereâs some side trip you want to do, or thereâs a place you want to eat and so youâll end up charging a lot more (eating takes time) while youâre there, or whatever.
And regardless, youâll have a better drive due to Autopilot (and not needing to go to gas stations), and either be more rested or happy to drive longer, whatever works for you. Lazy drives along side roads usually included. But not always, because not everywhere is the same. And the navigation system will warn you if youâre getting yourself into trouble, and do so more and more insistently if you donât have any reasonable options.
To be fair, Wyoming and Montana are still a challenge if you want to travel fast and far off the main roads.
Also to be fair, there are many places to stay that support charging. So youâll wake up in the morning with a âfull tankâ despite not having to stop for âgasâ.
Using a Tesla for long trips is so much better in so many ways that the fact that there are drawbacks just doesnât matter much to anybody who has experienced it.
-IGU-
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Seems a safe bet that PHEVs (whatever) are going to have a significant share, such as the Toyota Prius Prime, with a 25 mile battery-only range. With WFH, plugging into a regular 110 circuit and short trips, the gas mileage goes up around 80mpg. And they cost literally 1/2 of a new Model Y. Huge opportunity for Toyota & others.
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Given everything discussed here, Iâd expect the penetration of EVs to be slow for now. The constraints seem to be the availability of charging at home (an issue at apartments) and the availability of charging stations elsewhere (an issue in rural areas).
If/when these constraints are resolved, there will be a tipping point that allows EVs to take over and make gasoline-powered vehicles obsolete. Some possible scenarios:
- Incentives/subsidies to rental property owners to provide EV charging stations so that their tenants can charge their EVs at home
- More EV charging stations in rural areas
- Breakthroughs in battery or charging technology that make the charging process so fast and convenient as to be within shouting distance of that of refueling at a gas station
- Breakthroughs in charging technology that make them much cheaper to build (which would make #1 less necessary)
As OrmontUS mentioned about his area in Brooklyn, you cannot count on good access to a charger everywhere. Even more problematic is charging up in rural areas because there are so few charging stations around. You can see on the map that there are some vast areas without charging stations, and theyâre not all in Montana and the Dakotas. Even here in Minnesota, you can find vast areas (that arenât even that remote) without charging stations. If you live in the town of Waverly (just under 40 miles from downtown Minneapolis), youâre 20 miles away from your nearest charging station. If you live in Laurel, Mississippi, youâre 30 miles away from your nearest charging station.
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Toyota sells about 10,000 Prius cars a quarter in the USA.
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Most families want at least one long-range, no limits car. Most families canât afford the top models. That is why people will continue to buy hybrids until electric cars become the norm and all the recharging barriers have been conveniently solved. Most families nowadays need two cars, and the second one can be electric, if they have someplace to charge it at home. That is why the Chevy Bolt will sell, even with its past battery problems, because it makes sense as a second car. People donât ask whether a car is possible, they ask whether it is affordable, reliable, and convenient (and maybe nice looking).
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