On the importance of nimbleness

The recent discussion on HDP is interesting to me in how quickly Saul sold the stock after having gotten into it, then quickly buying back, and then pretty quickly, selling again. All well within a half year.

So, just how important to success is nimbleness? Saul makes many more trades than I do in any time period. He often builds a position with multiple purchases (something TMF universally recommends), then sometimes sells when it seems appropriate, only to buy back later (often at lower prices). Sometimes he doesn’t sell and just buys more, too. I’m well aware that he calls this “Modified Long Term Buy and Hold,” but it does strike me that it often ends up more short term than long term sales. Which is fine, obviously, as Saul makes good money with his method.

Just out of curiosity, have you Saul (or anyone else who runs your numbers) done an analysis of what percentage of your sells are tax-advantaged capital gains sells? Is it less than 50%?

I want to be clear that I’m not criticizing anyone here, especially Saul. I’m just trying to understand his method better, and to figure out how much of this nimbleness is essential to being successful with his method. For instance, I’m on record here back in Feb about being against HDP as an investment. My thoughts were not the hard numbers that Chris and Saul have presented to us, for me it was the business and the competition and also how people were viewing and pigeon holing that competition. Anyway, my hesitancy prevented me from being in a stock when the consensus now is not to be in that stock, but it also means I didn’t make the money Saul made getting into the stock and, as he put “got lucky.” I made less keeping the money off the table in cash than Saul did buying HDP.

I know Saul doesn’t ever go into a stock thinking short term, but it does end up that way sometimes. Being nimble seems important to his method. I’m not nimble by nature. I buy in tranches as well, but if I sell some/all I almost never buy back again. Am I hurting my results?

7 Likes

The recent discussion on HDP is interesting to me in how quickly Saul sold the stock after having gotten into it, then quickly buying back, and then pretty quickly, selling again. All well within a half year.

So, just how important to success is nimbleness? Saul makes many more trades than I do in any time period. He often builds a position with multiple purchases (something TMF universally recommends), then sometimes sells when it seems appropriate, only to buy back later (often at lower prices). Sometimes he doesn’t sell and just buys more, too. I’m well aware that he calls this “Modified Long Term Buy and Hold,” but it does strike me that it often ends up more short term than long term sales. Which is fine, obviously, as Saul makes good money with his method.

Just out of curiosity, have you Saul (or anyone else who runs your numbers) done an analysis of what percentage of your sells are tax-advantaged capital gains sells? Is it less than 50%?

I want to be clear that I’m not criticizing anyone here, especially Saul. I’m just trying to understand his method better, and to figure out how much of this nimbleness is essential to being successful with his method. For instance, I’m on record here back in Feb about being against HDP as an investment. My thoughts were not the hard numbers that Chris and Saul have presented to us, for me it was the business and the competition and also how people were viewing and pigeon holing that competition. Anyway, my hesitancy prevented me from being in a stock when the consensus now is not to be in that stock, but it also means I didn’t make the money Saul made getting into the stock and, as he put “got lucky.” I made less keeping the money off the table in cash than Saul did buying HDP.

I know Saul doesn’t ever go into a stock thinking short term, but it does end up that way sometimes. Being nimble seems important to his method. I’m not nimble by nature. I buy in tranches as well, but if I sell some/all I almost never buy back again. Am I hurting my results?

Saul strikes me as the kind of guy that dates the prettiest girl he meets.

If she is like Emma, no big delimma, he drops her and dates the next pretty girl in line.

Frank Zappa - Big Leg Emma
https://youtu.be/f-i78Hpv6hk

Cheers
Qazulight

4 Likes

Smorgasbord1: The recent discussion on HDP is interesting to me in how quickly Saul sold the stock after having gotten into it, then quickly buying back, and then pretty quickly, selling again. All well within a half year.

So, just how important to success is nimbleness?

Nimbleness is how an entire portfolio can safely and consistently obtain a high rate of return using high growth companies which are by nature risky. I see this as critical to this type of stock. Nimbleness allows taking advantage of short term successes without worrying about if a company is going to be a good long term investment.

HDP is a great example of why. Looking at the company now the finances look so bad I can’t justify having my money there but in January I invested happily. I was even correct as I walked away with a 30% return! The problem clearly did not stand out as strongly back then as nobody here brought up the issue as more than a passing concern. Irrelevant if we could have seen it, we all made the best decision we could at the time and we were correct! We did not make a mistake in January, we simply have a different view of the company today and see a different future. Perhaps HDP will actually to really great from here. I don’t know! Nimbleness to me is NOT about predicting the future, it is about shifting money to the place where I see it has the best chance of providing high returns.

The difference between a good investment and a bad investment is nothing more than the timing of your purchases and sales. Nimbleness allows us to take advantage of good timing for both those events.

Taxes … well, taxes complicate everything. I am grateful (mostly) that the majority of my investments are in retirement accounts where I don’t have to think about tax concerns. Managing the taxed portion gets annoyingly complicated to keep taxes under control and really not relevant to this particular board.

6 Likes

Howdy, smorgasboard,

to figure out how much of this nimbleness is essential to being successful with his method. For instance

I’m not Saul, but … maybe we need to realize that Saul isn’t investing passively, nor is he willing to accept “pretty good” returns. If this describes you too, then I would say yes, you need to be nimble. While it may appear that Saul makes decisions quickly and “out of the blue” I know better. I know he has a background understanding of each of his holdings, as much as almost anyone can, and when something changes, or more information becomes available, that knowledge background is his basis for some very decisive decision making, with less doubt involved than most of us can emulate. That background understanding for holdings is, IMO, one of Saul’s major strengths and advantages over the competition. So what often appears to be “lucky” especially if repeated time and again, has actually been paid for and well-earned with hard work and a willingness to put it to good use when it goes against consensus.

but if I sell some/all I almost never buy back again. Am I hurting my results?

Considered separately from your previous question, I think yes, definitely that previous holding should always remain on our watchlist. We already know the company (or, Saul certainly does and we should) we have a little history of how the market reacts to certain company-specific circumstances, and we already vetted the company previously. Lots of circumstances for a company are in continuous flux. Things change, our perceptions change, and the market’s perception changes.

FWIW, my watchlist currently sports 4 companies I have sold this year. Does that mean I was mistaken to sell them previously? Hard to answer that, but if you decide the answer is yes, I’m okay with that. I prefer to think I remain open to change and being willing to alter my opinions when it serves me well.

Everyone’s goals are different. Even if we think we invest just like someone else, our perceptions, influences, experiences and motivations are never identical. Saul’s goal is to maximize profit from the stock market, and he’s obviously very good at it. But he puts in the hours, remains vigilant and is willing to put his thoughts out here for us to critique. Not many people can (honestly) claim to similar strategy, work ethic or generosity.

Saul is unique, as are you, as are each of us. Should anyone attempt to copy anyone’s thinking or investments? No. Good luck with that if you disagree. But look around us here. Should we all watch and learn? You betcha. Most investors aren’t shooting for the highest returns among peers. On the other hand, learning enough to increase profits by even 1% per year over a few decades of investing adds up to a huge difference in wealth, and for this investor at least, that’s well worth the effort.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. We need to identify them, admit them, and learn how to make the best of each and change the worst.

Good luck,

Dan

17 Likes