Papers, papers, show us your papers

[bjurasz]

@jdc115

Sure, but there is a qualification to vote which has to have some kind of process/verification. It can’t be opened up to everybody on the planet, so that process of registering to vote has to exist.

Again, given how small actual voter fraud is, this is a non-existent problem meant simply to scare a certain faction of the population.

[jdc115]

Anyway, I don’t think charging somebody a one time fee to obtain a birth certificate take’s away anybody’s right to vote under the constitution. It’s almost midnight for me and my day starts early so will leave it here for now.

[steve203]

@bjurasz

I’ve shown my driver’s license every time I have voted.

Driver’s licenses, at least in Michigan, have a price.

Michigan offers a no-cost state ID. You qualify if over 65, blind, veteran, on welfare, or “housing insecure”. Things to bring with you to apply: proof of Social Security number, proof of identity. proof of legal residence, proof of Michigan residence.

Everything to obtain a free Michigan ID is free, except the “proof of identity”. When I registered to vote, I did it my mail. In Michigan, the Secretary of State handles both driver’s licenses and voter registration, so already has the DL information on file, for voting registration. So called “motor voter” laws have been targeted by the “election security” faction.

I don’t remember what, if any, “proof of identity” I provided when I first obtained a driver’s license, over 50 years ago. But this was the US then, not Shiny-land, and not nearly so nutty.

Steve

[bjurasz]

@steve203

Driver’s licenses, at least in Michigan, have a price.

I understand. I was simply commenting that I’ve never registered or voted while showing zero ID in the first place. I simply do not believe the fear mongering that is going on with respect to voting.

[buynholdisdead]

@jdc115

Sure, but there is a qualification to vote which has to have some kind of process/verification. It can’t be opened up to everybody on the planet, so that process of registering to vote has to exist.

If we truly want to fix it, give everyone a “realid” for free. Otherwise if we can’t give them proof of identification for free then we probably shouldn’t be complaining about it. For some people it is a burden just getting enough money for a drivers license. Also make a location a mile away from everyone to get the ID. It shouldn’t be that anyone should have to travel miles just to get identification. We make it easy and affordable then nobody would complain, well almost no one.

If we really want a “Democracy” or as some people would like to say “A Republic” then we should want every Citizen to vote. There isn’t any reason to play games, if that is the “real” intention.

Andy

[steve203]

@buynholdisdead

If we truly want to fix it, give everyone a “realid” for free. Otherwise if we can’t give them proof of identification for free then we probably shouldn’t be complaining about it.

That is the simple and obvious solution. Want people to have proof of identity? Provide it, free, and conveniently. That would satisfy the Constitutional prohibition on a poll tax. But I did not see a provision for free ID in the legislation. Only a requirement that people come up with any of several forms of ID, which are all based on a certified birth certificate, which is not free, at least none of the certificates I have obtained was free.

@buynholdisdead

If we really want a “Democracy” or as some people would like to say “A Republic” then we should want every Citizen to vote. There isn’t any reason to play games, if that is the “real” intention.

Ayup. Every measure I have seen proposed by the “vote security” faction makes it harder to vote: no registration by mail, no absentee voting, no early voting, no ballot drop boxes, and now, requiring documents with a non-zero cost, to register.

Steve

[bjurasz]

@steve203

Every measure I have seen proposed by the “vote security” faction makes it harder to vote: no registration by mail, no absentee voting, no early voting, no ballot drop boxes, and now, requiring documents with a non-zero cost, to register.

Exactly! There is a faction that wants LESS voter participation, because they know that when more people vote they tend to lose elections and power. So how to sell the idea of lowering voter participation? Wrap it in “election fraud” of course.

[orthomlm]

Letting illegals vote is election fraud

[bjurasz]

Nobody lets illegals vote.

[orthomlm]

Joe and the dems are planning on it - perhaps why no democrat will vote for the SAVE act -

[buynholdisdead]

@orthomlm

Letting illegals vote is election fraud

So prosecute them, unless of course there are not any.

[buynholdisdead]

@orthomlm

Joe and the dems are planning on it - perhaps why no democrat will vote for the SAVE act -

Actually that was an inadequate bill put forth by people that were to ignorant to understand exactly what we have been talking about. Nowhere in the bill does it come up with a standard or funding to enact the bill but throws it back onto the states. So instead of having one system we would have 50 systems, depending on which state you come from. I would vote it down also. Because after all we all should be against mandates that are not funded right?

Home Rule: How States Are Fighting Unfunded Federal Mandates

[bjurasz]

@orthomlm

Joe and the dems are planning on it

What brand of tinfoil are you wearing on your head right now?

[steve203]

@bjurasz

There is a faction that wants LESS voter participation, because they know that when more people vote they tend to lose elections and power.

I have posted before, about a narrative among some factions “the US is a republic, not a democracy”, as if a republican structure and democratic processes, ie voting, are mutually exclusive. I heard that narrative, live, spoken by a candidate for Gov of Michigan a few years ago.

Some 50 years ago, in one of my college classes, one of the topics discussed was how one faction’s voters will crawl over broken glass to vote, while members of the other faction were far less militant about voting. The obvious takeaway from that observation is imposing obstacles to voting will have an asymmetric impact.

Steve

[DrBob2]

@MataroPete

And this bill will go a long way toward solving the incredibly rampant illegal voting everywhere in the US.

Of course, one has to check for illegal voting to know how uncommon it is. Here’s an interesting story from California:

The Further Adventures Of The Bad Voter Boy

I repeated that I had read and I believed that mass mail-in voting was an invitation to voter fraud. However, as a scientist, I felt like I was believing something without evidence. No bueno.

California at that time had just gone to mass mail-in voting. In the 2020 election, they sent me a mail-in ballot. They said I could vote by mail, and I could also vote in person. So as an experiment to see if they’d notice, I did. Both.

Yes, I knew it was illegal. Yes, I knew I could get prison time. But I couldn’t think of any way to test the election security other than, well … to test it.

I never heard from the California Registrar of Voters. Not a peep. But I thought, well, maybe that was a fluke. So I repeated the experiment in the 2022 election. I voted both in person and by mail. Same result. Not a word from the Registrar of Voters…

DB2

[Leap1]

@DrBob2

Being a legal resident doesn’t make one a citizen. Voting should be limited to citizens.

It is.

But I do agree the political football has hands on it from both sides.

[buynholdisdead]

Its not that there isn’t voter fraud, just that it is rare. But it seems people keep trying.

Georgia Republican Party official voted illegally nine times, judge rules

Andy

[JimA759s]

@DrBob2

I never heard from the California Registrar of Voters. Not a peep. But I thought, well, maybe that was a fluke. So I repeated the experiment in the 2022 election. I voted both in person and by mail.

I wonder if they saw the double vote and threw one of the votes away; figuring the voter just made a mistake. In my small city I have no doubt that is something that might happen. I would be very interested in a follow-up to this. There have been people who have also done this to “test” the system and at least one went to prison. I’m sort of remembering Michigan or Wisconsin…

JimA

[DrBob2]

@JimA759s

I wonder if they saw the double vote and threw one of the votes away; figuring the voter just made a mistake.

Because he had talked about it he did get a visit from the Sonoma County DA, so my guess would be not.

DB2

[jdc115]

Seems he did it twice and it would have gone through if he hadn’t written about it. But he seems to be doing with the full understanding that he could be charged… which he should be. Probably will max penalties to ensure others understand that while maybe easy to do, consequences are not easy.

I technically don’t know how the process works in the US, would they have the ability to confirm the same person voted from a mail in ballot as well as in person?