PSTG thoughts

PSTG just reported results. After reviewing the results and having some offline discussions about the company, I decided to double my position. It’s now 7.6% position in my portfolio.

I think PSTG today is closely analogous to where NTNX was about 1 year ago. PSTG is still valued as if it were a hardware company (like NTNX was). PSTG has a net promoter score of 86 (NTNX had/has 90). These two things tell me that the market is misunderstanding what PSTG should be worth and that PSTG is not losing customers and that many more will flock to them. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for PSTG’s stock price to be worth 3-4x what it is today within a year. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen but that I believe that IMO it’s likely and it should happen. I may be wrong, but that’s where I’m deciding to place my bets.

Other stocks I’ve taken on recently (in the past 30 days) included

PVTL: big allocation increase

MDB: large allocation increase

SQ: increase after earnings; trimmed 1% allocation today to add to PSTG

NVDA: increase after earnings; see this one probably going to $300+ by February

SHOP: sold most after earnings (agree with Ethan and Saul); the reason is that the growth has substantially decelerated; I still hold a small position and I will monitor; if I see signs of reaccelerating then I may buy back in

Chris

56 Likes

and the fact that PSTG was up 15-20% yesterday did not stop me from adding. The price move prior to my purchase was irrelevant. Saul does this and it is an important investing lesson. Look at where you think it will go from here and not where it was in the past (even 12 hours in the past).

20 Likes

Hi Chris,

Would you mind sharing your new position allocation % with the increases you mentioned? Curious to know your new conviction level from your allocation.
Thanks

“PSTG just reported results. After reviewing the results and having some offline discussions about the company, I decided to double my position. It’s now 7.6% position in my portfolio.”

1 Like

Hi Chris, I agree with you on PSTG and the comparison with NTNX. I mentioned the following yesterday to a WhatsApp investment group I am a part of:

Even though the market is fairly efficient, it has been easy investing in hidden growth names that have continued to beat the low expectations built on the expected overall slower growth of total revenue. This is most apparent in software. I’ll go over 4 examples below.

1. TWLO - Uber was a huge part of total revenue but announced over a year ago they were moving away from TWLO. As they were moving away, the rest of the business was skyrocketing. If you looked at overall revenue growth, it was minimal as decreasing Uber revenue was masking that high growth. As Uber revenue has becoming a smaller part of total revenue, total revenue is now accelerating even though the non-Uber business is growing as it always has: it’s just a bigger part of overall revenue and now has a more meaningful impact. The stock has rocketed as a result but you could have seen this coming.

2. NTNX was mostly a hardware company but has been moving its business into a software model. Their software has been growing quickly but was overshadowed by the bigger hardware revenue. As software revenue became a bigger component of overall revenue, their shares have rocketed higher.

3. PSTG is similar to NTNX but to a lesser extent. They are hardware but trying to add on recurring software revenue. The software revenue is still small but it’s already helping their results as seen by last night’s earnings. The result is the stock is up around 14% today.

4. PVTL - their service revenue is very stable and low margin but they are quickly growing the recurring software business. Reason they took off after the last earnings is because software revenue is now finally over 50% of the overall business. This software revenue grew at 69% and has 92% margins! Total revenue growth was only 28% with 64% margins. As software revenue will be an even bigger component of total revenue going forward, what do you think will happen to total revenue growth and total margins?

Lesson for today, buy more PVTL before the earnings on 9/12. It’s already my biggest holding but I will buy more of it prior to earnings.

21 Likes

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I was referring to the other tickers, Pvtl, mdb, sq etc…

I think PSTG today is closely analogous to where NTNX was about 1 year ago. PSTG is still valued as if it were a hardware company (like NTNX was).

Hi Chris, I thought I sent this reply yesterday but must have not pushed the submit button.

Chris, I don’t see the analogy!

Nutanix was a primary software company that included in their revenue zero-margin pass-through hardware, manufactured by others, which they sold along with their software. Now they have stopped counting and stopped selling the zero-margin pass-through hardware and are pivoting into being a pure software company, and as much as possible a SaaS company. (As I see it from my non-techie perspective).

Pure is a primary hardware company (Flash Arrays, Flash Blades, etc), that also sells software to augment the function of their hardware. They can’t do away with their hardware part. It’s the core of their business. I don’t see any analogy at all (Again from my non-techie point of view).

Am I missing something crucial here?

Saul

12 Likes

Hi Saul

I guess it depends where you count the hardware in the business model. Pure may not get away from hardware from its own operations basis but potentially could take hardware out of the equation in terms of what it sells to clients - if it sells HAAS (Hardware As A Service) then it might take it out of its sales model - which might be a little harder to do on prem but could still attempt it.

It could even get away from hardware internally if it is prepared to lease and re-lease tech but I agree it might have to be in there somewhere. I don’t think “virtualisation” has got that far!

Ant

5 Likes

Am I missing something crucial here?

Saul

No, that is accurate from my view. Pure still lives in the “san” storage world competing against netapp, emc, hpe, etc… They try to get around being hardware with evergreen pricing model, which is really just creative financing (consumption models or OpEx instead of CapEx) which most major vendors offer a version of. Pure just does best job of pushing evergreen.

Pure still has to compete against HCI from vmware ntnx cisco hpe, along with new storage upstarts, and cloud.

Will their AIRI/nvidia partnerships become materially relevant to revenue? Not sure.

Pure is a very good company and likely a solid investment long-term. No need to try and will it to be something it isnt yet.

One caveat - acquisitions can change the whole ballgame if they start truly introducing new saas solutions to their install base (land and expand). Say they bought MDB or AYX to become a data juggernaut. In lieu of that, they are still mainly a hardware storage company that is very good, but which has deep-pocketed competition on all sides.

Dreamer

25 Likes

No, that is accurate from my view. Pure still lives in the “san” storage world competing against netapp, emc, hpe, etc… They try to get around being hardware with evergreen pricing model, which is really just creative financing (consumption models or OpEx instead of CapEx) which most major vendors offer a version of. Pure just does best job of pushing evergreen. Pure still has to compete against HCI from vmware ntnx cisco hpe, along with new storage upstarts, and cloud… Pure is a very good company and likely a solid investment long-term. No need to try and will it to be something it isnt yet… they are still mainly a hardware storage company that is very good, but which has deep-pocketed competition on all sides.

Thanks Dreamer, that’s the way I saw it too.
Best,
Saul

2 Likes

4. PVTL - their service revenue is very stable and low margin but they are quickly growing the recurring software business. Reason they took off after the last earnings is because software revenue is now finally over 50% of the overall business. This software revenue grew at 69% and has 92% margins! Total revenue growth was only 28% with 64% margins. As software revenue will be an even bigger component of total revenue going forward, what do you think will happen to total revenue growth and total margins?

Lesson for today, buy more PVTL before the earnings on 9/12. It’s already my biggest holding but I will buy more of it prior to earnings.

So, price doesn’t matter?

3 Likes

“so price doesn’t matter?”

All the pieces matter. Monkey learned that from Lester, on The Wire. But specifically, here, if the future growth of the company and increasing bananas in the coffer are tremendous, and if you take a view beyond the next few quarters, then no, the price does not matter.

Think in probabilities and risk-reward ratios rather than more linear if x, then y, then z “correct price to buy at” linear logic.

And out of curiosity, if someone made this same argument against Amazon–anytime in the last two decades, really–how would you answer them now knowing what we know about the company and its share price? Don’t buy shares at $60 because price matters?

Hugs,

Monkey (long AMZN and PVTL)

28 Likes

So, price doesn’t matter?

Hi Naj. For me price always matters. If PVTL was trading at a EV/sales of 30, I would not be as excited. I talked about valuation in the first link below which lists the reasons I like PVTL as an investment. From that post I discussed valuation:

The valuation is not overly expensive. At 23.30, the EV is now $5.355B ($6B market cap minus $645 in cash with no debt). With sales forecasted $645.5M for this year, that gives us an EV to sales ratio of 8.3 times. I think that’s cheap compared to other software names given the 69% growth in subscription revenue with its 92% margins.

Now with the stock at 26.9 and market cap at $6.93B, the EV is now $6.285B and I come up with an updated EV to sales ratio of 9.7. A little more expensive than my previous post, but still a bargain compared to other high growth software names like ZS, SHOP, SQ, etc. So, yes price (or rather valuation) matters and for me and it is telling me that PVTL is not expensive. Also, as I pointed out in previous posts, I think their guidance is very conservative. I am very much looking forward to 9/12.

Here is the post referred to above and my deep dive posts:

http://discussion.fool.com/why-i-bought-more-pvtl-33113897.aspx

http://discussion.fool.com/let8217s-get-pvtl-33111511.aspx?sort=…

18 Likes

Hey guys, can you break out your pvtl discussion to a separate thread so we can continue to discuss PSTG in this one?

I wanted to weigh in here as I tend to agree with Chris that PSTG is a stellar opportunity right now. So first off, yes, pstg sells hardware but the value that PSTG is selling is the software. Companies can come to PSTG and get something that is fast and simple and just works. Tinker made a point about PVTL a while back which I think applies to PSTG also. I’m paraphrasing things but, Companies want things to be simple. Whoever makes things the most simple will have the largest market. How i see it is we have a company that thinks they can grow greater than 30% in the long term but basically admitted to sandbagging in their conference call, operating margins are improving dramatically(about 10 points) and should be positive this year so they should be profitable this year. Long term they can be in the 15-20% range. With an EV/S of only 3.7 they appear very inexpensive, I could easily see that raising to the 5-8 range. But maybe would should talk about earnings, with 35% growth they should be over 2 billion dollars in 2 years, with 15-20% operating margin that is 300-400 million dollars in earnings (Obviously I’m painting with big strokes here and not including things like debt payments, lawsuits, etc). At current price that would be a 1.50 -2 dollars a share in earnings for a p/e 13-18. (i know this is two years in advance) I think one could easily see a double in share price if not more for a more reasonable p/e of 26-36 for a company that is growing so quickly. I can see why chris compared this to where NTNX was, but in terms of valuation I think it is also similar to where PAYC was a year ago. I also have increased my position substantially

All the best,
Ethan

26 Likes

Not that it means a hill of beans with companies being so different and having different share counts and myriad other differences, but I find it interesting that PVTL and PSTG are at almost the same price today, while also being next to each other in my portfolio.

Also, they are the 2 lowest share price companies in my portfolio (barely behind IQ presently). I have noted that most of my best performing stocks have higher per share prices. This is probably mostly indicative of splits having gone out of vogue in recent years (maybe led by GOOGL and AMZN, along with BKNG and many others). PVTL and PSTG are both fairly young in their lives as public companies, so they still have relatively low per share prices (which means practically nothing to any seasoned investor). Many of the things that pushed companies to try to keep their share prices under ~$100/share in ages past must have fallen away.

Some months back, I recall noting that ANET and NVDA were both at $212 at the same time point, and I suggested that ANET was about to leave NVDA in the dust. That somewhat happened, but NVDA may continue to try keeping up between now and next March (2019).

Sorry for those partially-irrelevant musings, just finished a 2nd cup of pretty decent coffee and my brain and fingers needed to use up some of that energy burst on this day with a new portfolio ATH by quite a bit.

-volfan84
long PSTG, PVTL, NVDA, & ANET…with no plans to trim any of the 4 positions anytime prior to the next quarter’s earnings and likely far beyond then

Who makes the chips for Pure? Or do they manufacture them?

Processor chips or memory chips? I’m assuming Nvidia makes a portion of processor chips and memory which is NAND I believe would come from one of the 4-6 Nand producers. If they are top end (Micron/Intel they probably are less interchangable than Samsung etc).
A

And out of curiosity, if someone made this same argument against Amazon–anytime in the last two decades, really–how would you answer them now knowing what we know about the company and its share price? Don’t buy shares at $60 because price matters?

Right. The general philosophy on this board is that we’re buying stocks that are growing so quickly that standard valuation metrics don’t apply. That is, fast as everyone else thinks the company is growing, it’s actually going to grow faster.

If anything, I believe the prevalence of “common wisdom” around P/E, P/S, EV, etc ratios does more to keep people out of high growth investments. If a company is priced for 100% growth (which might mean a very high P/E), but actually grows 250%, then it was a great investment after all. The analysis in this thread that wouter28 gives is better, as it doesn’t compare to “norms” but to other high growth companies. I would just caution that while informative, the philosophy here is that the market really can’t properly price companies with super high growth since overall Mr. Market doesn’t believe in that growth.

The Amazon example is perfect, but most companies are not like Amazon. Had Amazon not invented easy Cloud Computing, AMZN probably would have turned out to have been a bad investment around 2012 or so. So, that’s why the Saul philosophy also includes being willing to get out of stocks that are still growing, just not growing at the very high rates they once grew. When ANET’s growth slowed from 45%+ to around 25% (as predicted by the company itself in back to back earnings calls), Saul sold it all and moved into other companies that he expected would grow faster than ANET. Same with NVDA before that. Both those are solid, growing companies. But, there are faster growing companies out there in which to invest.

That agility is a REALLY important part of the investment strategy. Companies not only slow down, they peak, they hit growing pains, they have new competition, they experience market shifts. Saul’s ability to find companies about to hit a growth spurt, then ride them until that spurt is over, is uncanny. He’ll have misses, but as he as pointed out, he’s made so much that even a big double digit percentage drop means he’s come out ahead compared to more traditional, conservative, investing anyway.

I remember reading what Mickey Mantle said after winning a baseball Triple Crown in 1956, paraphrased: “I actually won the Quadruple Crown, since I also had the most strikeouts!”

In other words, when you make enough hits, home runs, and RBIs, it doesn’t matter that you also strike out the most - overall you come out ahead. That, in my view, is Saul’s approach.

19 Likes

I think PSTG today is closely analogous to where NTNX was about 1 year ago. PSTG is still valued as if it were a hardware company (like NTNX was). PSTG has a net promoter score of 86 (NTNX had/has 90). These two things tell me that the market is misunderstanding what PSTG should be worth and that PSTG is not losing customers and that many more will flock to them. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for PSTG’s stock price to be worth 3-4x what it is today within a year. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen but that I believe that IMO it’s likely and it should happen. I may be wrong, but that’s where I’m deciding to place my bets.

I have a significant position in PSTG, adding to it on the drop. After seeing another almost 10% drop today, I’m beginning to wonder what’s going on. It seems to be crashing even harder than the overall tech sector.

Does anybody have any new thoughts? Is it simply trading volatility or something more?

I guess it still hasn’t dropped as much as NTNX although that’s not saying much, lol.

Dave

I have a significant position in PSTG, adding to it on the drop. After seeing another almost 10% drop today, I’m beginning to wonder what’s going on. It seems to be crashing even harder than the overall tech sector.

Does anybody have any new thoughts? Is it simply trading volatility or something more?

I guess it still hasn’t dropped as much as NTNX although that’s not saying much, lol.

Dave

I am not sure what has caused it, but I am similarly baffled, especially considering their actual business results from the past several quarters and my expectation that they will maintain the positive momentum for their business.

-volfan84