Obviously, there are people for which different foods can be a problem. I can eat as much bread as I like and not have an issue. People with celiac get really sick. Some people if they even look at a steak will get coronary blockage. Etc. So, I won’t tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t eat. I’m not them, and I’m not a doctor. I’m no model of healthy eating, myself (I hate vegetables, unless they are ingredients in larger dishes). I try to consume products that are “natural”, in that I don’t need a degree in chemistry to know what’s in it. I try to avoid “artificial flavors” since I want them to use actual flavors, instead (voting with my shopping dollars!).
But for as long as I can remember, I’ve been reading that the “food pyramid” is a disaster. As I recall, it was mostly accused of being a means to promote processed foods for the American food industry. The new pyramid seems to be an inverted pyramid (the pictures I have seen). I’m not even sure a pyramid is an appropriate way to present this kind of information. Can it reflect the realities of nutrition? I doubt it.
So, I don’t pay any attention to that. We buy “clean” food, as much as possible. I try to limit my intake of high-carb foods (chips, sodas, other “simple carbs”), but I still consume some. I doubt I will ever like vegetables unless they are prepared in a very non-healthy way (but I still try to eat some). I continue to eat meats, primarily (though a lot less red meat than I used to). To me, I need to enjoy living, and eating is a big part of that. Otherwise, what’s the point?
I use butter, not margarine. 1poorlady renders her own tallow from grass-fed beef fat that we get for free at the local market (otherwise they just toss the fat). We don’t use much lard, though any fats from pork that render during cooking, we save and use.
Well, there’s a sort of plausible sounding truthiness to this in that the iterations of the food pyramid that most folk recall being familiar with are the cartoon representations on the packaging of, say, breakfast cereals and processed snack foods. It’s doubtful that many folk studied the details of the non marketing pyramid closely at the time else they’d be well aware that, along with recommendations to use added fat sparingly (or “demonizing” fat, if you read some sources) there was a similar recommendation with sugar. Funny no one seems to remember noticing that🤔
This comment made me find out more about Ancel Keys. Not being in the medical profession I have no interest in him beyond what affects my own health. The search revealed a very influential activist with much good to his name. But there is a dark side to as well. It makes me think about a very influential personality in my trade, Steve Jobs! Creative, innovative, but hard to work with.
I believe you trust Dr. Philip Ovadia. This video might just break that trust. It’s almost an hour long but I timed the start at 14:45 where they talk about Ancel Keys.
Earlier in the video they talk about the missing pieces in the education of doctors so it might interest you to start watching from the beginning.
Cate Shanahan on Ancel Keys’ Deception: The Dark History Behind the War on Saturated Fat
Once again, criticism based on “insights” about Keys….but not the actual work. I recognise both the names of these two interviewees and they are both vocal promoters of specific dietary regimen….that at the fundamental level could well work nicely for some in helping them clean up a seriously craptaculous lifestyle such as the one that you’re in recovery from. In the process of their advocacy they reveal the cholesterol denialism that, manifestly still has traction in the internet echo chamber. Also in the process, they reveal a penchant for promoting the sort of misinformation/lies that would place both of them as examples to cite on the Lies on the Internet thread….and the doubling down on the part of those who’ve fallen for the bamboozle.
Now interested readers can check out their individual rap sheets for themselves but Shanahan is a promoter of the sort of fringe ideas that RFK is influenced by (might well be an antivaxxer too……Edit: I “did my research” and yes, this seems to be the case) She repeatedly states “I’ve done the research “ on the topic under discussion but I couldn’t find any reproducible publications….either from a general lit search or from her own resume. I did turn up articles on the fringe ideas and unsubstantiated claims she makes.
Ovadia looks to me like just another carnivore diet promoter looking for traction for his books. Not sure why you imagined I “trusted” him??
They both start off with an attempt to bamboozle the unwary (successfully it seems) by emphasizing what they’d like you to believe….that poly and mono unsaturated fats are inherently bad because, unlike the saturated fats that’re solid at room temperature, they’re prone to oxidation. Now, either they are ignorant….or believe that of their viewer/readership…of the fact that oxidation on the chemistry lab workbench is not the same as the oxidation process within the body. Or specifically within artery walls during the early stages or ASCVD (atherosclerotic cardio vascular disease)
It was a bit downhill from there. Ancel Keys wasn’t a physician, did not attempt to “prove” a causation effect between diet and heart disease, didn’t talk the medical profession out of linking cigarettes….or sugar…..to disease causation.
Ancel Keys did not.promote Snackwell cookies nor Mazola corn oil.
Some worthwhile teachable moments on why people believe weird things in this video (apart from the obvious…..because they want too)
The food pyramid guide has not been a recommendation since 2011. I am not sure why contrarian health gurus are obssessed with it..
Analyses of food consumption data show that we never really cut fat as the food guides recommended. We increased carb intake. Not carbs from beans, veggies or whole grains, (recommended in all food guides including the original pyramid), but refined carbs in cakes, muffins, cookies, pizza etc. which are also high in sugar and fat. All facilitated by the processed food industry.
It will not suprise me if the same happens with this new pyramid. There will be people who think they are not eating enough butter, lard or tallow.
In addition to grifters eating whole sticks of butter on Youtube, there will be an explosion of processed foods made with tallow and lard-courtesy of the processed food industry.
A long life is a result of many things, including dietary practices, but Dr. Keys lived to a ripe old age of 100…
TL:DR the problem is never the recommendations, its the lack of follow-through by the populace facilitated by the processed food industry-Kennedy should deal with them first.
To your point on why today’s influencers and whatnot still harp on about the pyramid……a) there are no other talking points that they have…..and b) those who’re bamboozled by their twaddle presumably find comfort in the idea that there’s a handy scapegoat for excuse making.
The earliest mention I can find of the Seven Countries’ Study in this context…..or should I say “portrayal” since it’s near impossible to get an accurate description from these influencers (but they can apparently find a reporter’s opinions on Keys’ personality from the 1960 ) …….dates back to Gary Taubes’s “Big Fat Lie” article in the NYT in the early aughts. The OG lie on the topic, in fact……that’s gained traction ever since and spawned a cottage industry in historical revisionism and False Memory Syndrome. The other heavy lifters in the field he chose to misrepresentation (knowingly)…Walter Willet, John Farquahar, Barbara Rolls etc haven’t been quite so easy to scapegoat as they’ve been perfectly able to challenge the nonsense with actual evidence (not being dead makes that a bit easier )
Coincidentally, this YouTube video upstream came at a handy time as, in playing catch up on my Peter Attia podcasts whilst easing carefully back into Z2/ASCVD mitigation/low lactate training on my treadmill, I’d just finished this episode…
….so it wasn’t quite the time waster it might appear.
As he discusses each diet, he emphasizes the very point that any diet or nutritional recommendation can be bolloxed up pretty comprehensively without too much effort at all.
Yes, behind a paywall unfortunately. As a subscriber I can never tell exactly when the cutoff begins….but there’s almost always enough in the teaser to get the idea.
That’s how I became a subscriber. I already received his regular “non lame” emails and resisted the temptation to subscribe until I saw an interview on Z2 training with Inigo San Millan and, because I knew I’d find it interesting, I played crafty with just the monthly subscription. Of course, in addition, I found a wealth of other guest driven podcasts all there so I converted my subscription to annual. That was almost 5 years ago. A most worthwhile investment for me.
Here is all I know. Growing up [1958-1973] McDonald’s french fries were DELICIOUS!
Upon graduating from college; McDonald’s food pretty much fell from my food intake. But I would very occasionally stop at the Golden Arches if I was in a rush. By 1990 their fries tasted like Krap! YMMV
In 1955, the original McDonald’s French fries were made with just a half-dozen ingredients, including potatoes, salt, corn syrup, and a dash of sugar. For frying, McDonald’s made use of a proprietary mix called “Formula 47,” which was mostly beef tallow (which stops fries from being vegetarian) with some canola oil mixed in.
today, their fries are prepared in plain old vegetable oil.
I read sometime last year that they are now recommending against “seed oils”. Which is most of them. Olive oil and avocado oil, IIRC, were really the only two that were “good”. We use both. Several years ago, we also read that margarine was worse than butter, so we use butter (gives better results, anyway).
For me, I’m under no delusion that I have an ideal diet. I try to limit the “bad” stuff like donuts. Haven’t had a donut in 6 months. But I do occasionally treat myself to one. One thing that helps eliminate most junk food is I have a personal policy of not getting stuff that has dyes, artificial anything, or requires a PhD in chemistry to know what it is. That requirement eliminates probably 75% of the food in a normal grocery like Safeway or Fry’s (Kroger).
But I enjoy good food. Life would be significantly diminished without it. So, I will not be converting to a diet of kale and sprouts, even if it shaves a couple years off my life expectancy. I’m over 60, so I suspect a lot of the damage has already been done from the previous 60 years of not paying attention (actually, about 50 years…I started paying attention about 10 years ago).
Not relevant to nutrition, but my latest concern is microplastics. They’ve found them in brains of cadavers. To me, that’s scary. Research is still on-going about the effects, but I can imagine blocking blood vessels and causing strokes. Again…60 years of damage, but I’m on a campaign to eliminate as much plastics as I can (e.g. storage containers) going forward.
Well, if you “do your research” from the two YouTube gurus’ resources upstream, you’ll likely conclude that “seed oils” are as disease inducing as anything Ancel Keys could recommend. Much like vaccines. If you get my drift
Notions that, for the most part, are as evidence free as they are evidence proof.
Here’s how nutritional sciences get a bit tricky when interpreting data. If, say McDonald’s (that well known source of wholesome dining experiences) reverted back to fries coated in the concoction they used in the 1950’s and fried in tallow, there’s a strong chance you might see an improvement in health and wellbeing…..if portions reverted back to human sized they used back then. Along with the likely frequency. If, however, portions remained the same as now along with today’s frequency of consumption, I’m going to hazard a guess that you’d be hard pressed to find evidence of any improvements. Poor diet is rarely poor for one reason alone
Sure. My news feed is mostly filled with science-y stuff. Usually “science reporting” of pre-prints and journal articles (some of which I will look up the source). I don’t get much medical info from YouTube or Instagram or whatever.
As with anything nutrition, there are differing opinions. But I went and looked it up again. This article from Johns Hopkins seems to say they are fine in moderation. (So maybe we can fire up the deep fryer again! Avocado oil is too expensive to use for that! It’s calls out “misunderstandings”. Which I can believe. I can’t find it now, but the assertion I recall reading was that heating seed oils (in a skillet or deep fryer) was the problem because it changed the omega molecules in some bad way. This article doesn’t say that.
You make a good point about portions. We bought a “china” set from Costco several years ago. Came with plates, bowls, and salad (smaller) plates. We almost never use the dinner plates. We serve on salad plates to limit portions, and nobody “goes back for seconds” even when we want to. If I ate on a dinner plate, I’d probably be much larger than I am (1poorlady is a really good cook).
Olive oil is not seed oil It is the from the flesh of the olive and the best olive oil, virgin, is cold pressed.
Why is olive oil unique compared to seed oils?
Cold pressed olive oil is produced by mechanically separating the flesh of the olive fruit. This process is fundamentally distinct from seed oils, which are extracted from seeds such as soybean, canola, sunflower, and corn. Whereas seed oils usually need chemical extraction at high heat, olive oil is merely fruit juice. You crush the fruit, and you get oil out. Individuals who have personally ground up olives understand the ease and gentleness of this process.
To make avocado oil, the pulp of the avocado fruit (not the seed) is slowly pressed to get the oil out. The process focuses on keeping the nutrients in the oil and making a clean, healthy cooking oil. Knowing how it’s made helps you make better choices, whether you’re adding it to salad dressings or having high heat cooking methods.
Yep. That’s why we mostly switched to those after the flurry of articles I read. Just had to buy some more avocado oil because we used up the last bottle. Still have plenty of olive oil, but it’s hard to cook with because of the low smoke point. We sometimes use it for low-heat cooking.
But, Johns Hopkins says it really isn’t a problem. So, we may go back to using cheaper canola oil when we don’t need the olive oil flavor. I think we still have have a Costco jug in the pantry.
When we cook pork, any rendered pork fat is collected to use for cooking something else. Adds flavor, and is free. 1poorlady has started getting free grass-fed beef fat from a local market, and rendering it for tallow. She uses that in some of her cooking. Again, adds some flavor.
But, as I said, we had to get a new bottle of avocado oil. That’s our primary oil for cooking (high smoke point, relatively neutral flavor).
I can’t quite envision the Captain searing his Wagyu beef steak with a stick of butter from how he describes his diet…
“Cooking with” can mean all manner of using fats/oils….Frying eggs, frying onions/tomatoes for soups and stews, adding fats to salads, deep frying food etc. All except deep frying use relatively small amounts of fat on average. These small amounts within an otherwise healthy eating pattern are not deleterious to health be they saturated, unsaturated, seed oils etc.
It is the constant diet of foods processed with seed oils (and soon with lard and tallow) that will do one in.
I wish Kennedy and his bevy of gurus would work on Ag policy and food processing companies to moderate many practices that harm public health. Example:
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