Should I sell some of my SWKS?

Aren’t you concerned that you may have too much in SWKS? How do you deal with this? do you start selling some?

Hi tj, I may be totally wrong, but selling some never even occurred to me. Let’s see. they have a current PE of 13.9 while the average PE for the S&P is over 17, so this company is being valued as way under an average S&P company.

Okay, let’s check. I have over three years of quarterly revenues on my table and EVERY one of the quarters was up from the year before. Last quarter was 881 million up from 718 million. They predict for 925 TO 930 next quarter, up from 806. They always beat their predictions.

Adjusted earnings have always been up for every one of those quarters too. EVERY ONE! Their trailing earnings are $5.27 per share, up from $3.24 the year before. That’s up about 63%. They predict $1.60 next quarter, up from $1.26. Again, they always beat their estimates.

Gross margins last quarter were 50%, up from 45% a year before, and 44% the year before that. Outlook is for 51% next quarter.

They are buying back $400 million in shares.

Does this sound like a below average S&P company???

They do about 20% of their sales with Apple as I remember. Now there is a rumor that Apple may cut back 30% of sales on one model of their phones (or two) because of over supply, for a quarter. 30% of 20% means SWKS’s sales would be down 6% from what they anticipated if all their sales to Apple were in the oversupplied models (which of course they aren’t). But anyway, they are predicting about 15% gain in revenue, and probably expecting to beat that, so a 6% sales drop would still leave their revenue way up. And all the rest of their business is growing. They are riding huge waves of connectivity and complexity and increased usage in the internet and internet of things. And they have great management. This is a Hold-for-a-Long-Long-Time type of stock.

Explain to me why I should panic and sell some of my shares at a PE of 13.9, because one customer (admittedly large) is rumored to have a temporary one or two quarter slowdown in orders.

Saul

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Saul,

Your commentary on why you are not selling SWKS (which I agree with) has me thinking of the opposite question:

When do I buy a stock such as SWKS whose price is currently falling but otherwise looks good?

Musings in my post from earlier today aside, I went ahead and bought a small position in SWKS this afternoon and intend to buy more later. I hesitated to buy more today because of the current downwards trend, but it would be too easy to get into analysis paralysis attempting to guess at the best price.

Is it even worth worrying over if this is the best price so long as my analysis indicates it is a good entry point for investment?

Thank you,
David

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They do about 20% of their sales with Apple as I remember.

I do not disagree with your overall thesis, Saul, but Morningstar pegs Apple as 34% of SkyWorks sales for FY2014 and “probably” a somewhat higher percentage for FY 2015.

M*'s DCF model puts fair value at $92, although with a fair amount of risk around that value. Rates SWKS 4-star (out of 5).

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What portion of SWKS revenue comes from smartphones?

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Morningstar’s DCF model puts fair value at $92, although with a fair amount of risk around that value. Rates SWKS 4-star (out of 5)

And this was separately reported by IBD and The Street today:

Skyworks Solutions (NASDAQ:SWKS), an Apple (NASDAQ:AAPL) chip supplier, had its overweight rating and 95 price target reinstated by Barclays.

And The Street also gave their own rating:

TheStreet Ratings objectively rated this stock according to its “risk-adjusted” total return prospect over a 12-month investment horizon. Not based on the news in any given day, the rating may differ from Jim Cramer’s view or that of this articles’s author. TheStreet Ratings has this to say about the recommendation:

We rate SKYWORKS SOLUTIONS INC as a Buy with a ratings score of A-. This is based on the convergence of positive investment measures, which should help this stock outperform the majority of stocks that we rate. The company’s strengths can be seen in multiple areas, such as its robust revenue growth, largely solid financial position with reasonable debt levels by most measures, solid stock price performance, impressive record of earnings per share growth and compelling growth in net income.

Saul

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SaulR80683: Does this sound like a below average S&P company???

Explain to me why I should panic and sell some of my shares at a PE of 13.9, because one customer (admittedly large) is rumored to have a temporary one or two quarter slowdown in orders.

The rumor is easy to ignore. Less easy to ignore is why, in spite of the stellar quarterly reports, SWKS has declined by about 35% over the past six months while the S&P 500 has declined by about 4%. Is this Apple contagion… a cyclical stock being cyclical… an out of favor sector… or something else?

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"Explain to me why I should panic and sell some of my shares at a PE of 13.9, because one customer (admittedly large) is rumored to have a temporary one or two quarter slowdown in orders. "

Hi Saul:

no that’s not what I implied. I own SWKS but it is only 1.6% of my portfolio and I have no intention to sell, and I definitely will not sell on a single headline or rumour. That’s for sure.

But you have a different situation you may have more than 20% in SWKS. Not to imply that you jump on rumours or even if that were true on a single headline but as the outlook changes quarter to quarter, how do you sift through the relevant and the irrelevant?

You would have to watch it closely simply because you have a lot riding on it, and you do seem to care about the year to year returns but I suspect you are flexible.

I am just curious about what kind of news would trigger an action from you and change your mind about a stock. Would you keep SWKS knowing that the stock might not go much anywhere for 1 year or more? From your exposition, I guess you would be more willing to put it into a different stock that you think has more promise and would move up momentarily - a better opportunity?

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with SWKS. The growth rates and potentials are quite interesting, and you are betting on that. It’s a good bet. But to come back to my question, is it worth putting >20% of your money in? well you obviously already have. So my question is 1. how did you gather so much conviction and 2. what would make you change your mind about this one?

tj

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I remember and old saying ways back in the dark ages, before iPhones even. Invest in the man, not the product.

It seems Saul watches the cash register not the stock room.

This seems prudent because anyone can sell anything. Very few can make a profit doing so. It seems the CEO of Skyworks is one of those people.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Does this sound like a below average S&P company???

S&P500 in aggregate represents a set of larger cap US companies, and together the risk of owning it is much lower than the risk of owning SWKS. SWKS however could potentially grow a lot more than S&P500 companies in aggregate. It’s almost a guarantee that S&P500 companies revenues and profits will be much higher in 10 years than it is today. With SWKS the range of possibilities is much wider. It could be anything. A 90% slide in revenues to a 500% increase in them over the next 10 years.

I would consider SWKS a company with above average risk and above average return potential. I also salute you for having the courage to invest something like 20% in such a high risk business like SWKS (especially since you are retired and potentially manage atleast a couple of million). PE is low, but only as long as the E remains high. I have (and am sure you have too) seen many companies with high earnings where the earnings drop like a rock.

I can’t compare SWKS to ARO but can probably compare SKX to ARO (in terms of industry focus). ARO once was a high flyer with growing revenue, impressive gross margins and growing stores. Their ROE was super impressive. But then something happened (consumer preferences changed) and ARO started losing their position. SKX is probably never going to suffer such fate, but it is not entirely impossible.

I don’t know SWKS as well as you (I own some, and have a friend who understands the specifics of this industry far better than both of us and is a believer in this business), but I know that QCOM for example could potentially eat SWKS lunch one day. If QCOM or others fail to do so over the next few years, SWKS could be a huge winner, and your gamble could payoff. Yes, it’s a gamble when you are not under 50 (or 40 or 30) and have 20% in any stock (except maybe BRK/A or some other blue chip large cap with stable steady dividend).

Don’t get me wrong. Your 16% for 2015 is impressive and goes to show that you have an excellent eye for growth stocks and you are indeed impressive growth stock investor. And I also followed your lead and bought some stocks from your portfolio, but I don’t have the stomach to invest 5% of my portfolio for e.g. in SNCR, although I see myself doing so in CASY for the right price. You were also dead right about ELLI. Unfortunately, you sold and I probably sold before you, though I think you made a lot of money on ELLI, and I still don’t like the fact that their management generously pays themselves and adds all of that back to report adjusted earnings.

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Is this Apple contagion… a cyclical stock being cyclical… an out of favor sector… or something else?

I don’t know. But they had midterm goals (4 to 6 quarters away) of Gross Margins hitting 50%. They hit that early (last quarter already) and are now forecasting 55%. They had the same midterm goals of adjusted earnings run rate of $7.00 per share. They decided this last conference call to raise that to $8.00 per share. This is not a worried company.

JMO

Saul

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Here are current IBD ratings…

ChecklistRating
Composite Rating85 Neutral
EPS Rating97 Pass
RS Rating33 Fail
Group RS Rating A+ Pass
SMR RatingAPass
Acc/Dis RatingD- Fail

Lots of distribution, which is obvious in the charts. RS also reflects the downward trend. Today was on large volume, but recently the volume has been below average…
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?swks

I do have faith and bought some the other day - too early, but buying small pieces. I agree the numbers make it look good and the Apple rumors could easily prove wrong.

P.

Here are current IBD ratings…

Checklist Rating
Composite Rating85 Neutral
EPS Rating97 Pass
RS Rating33 Fail
Group RS Rating A+ Pass
SMR RatingAPass
Acc/Dis RatingD- Fail

Lots of distribution, which is obvious in the charts. RS also reflects the downward trend. Today was on large volume, but recently the volume has been below average…
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?swks

I do have faith and bought some the other day - too early, but buying small pieces. I agree the numbers make it look good and the Apple rumors could easily prove wrong.

P.

Now there is a rumor that Apple may cut back 30% of sales on one model of their phones (or two) because of over supply, for a quarter.

At the same time there have been multiple rumors that Apple will release a model with a smaller screen in March. I’d think it quite possible that the number of those units could easily make up for any temporary cuts to the current larger screen models. Is it even possible that the rumors are interconnected and that some production is being shifted to the new ones?

Steve

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What would the 1YPEG be for SWKS? Still trying to figure that out.

Cheers
Vern

Aren’t you concerned that you may have too much in SWKS? How do you deal with this? do you start selling some?

With SWKS down ~12% since Monday’s close (as of an hour before today’s close), about to set a new 52-week low and reporting earnings in 2 weeks, the better question is why shouldn’t I add some more? It’s already my largest position, even on this dip.

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Explain to me why I should panic and sell some of my shares at a PE of 13.9, because one customer (admittedly large) is rumored to have a temporary one or two quarter slowdown in orders.
- - -
The rumor is easy to ignore. Less easy to ignore is why, in spite of the stellar quarterly reports, SWKS has declined by about 35% over the past six months while the S&P 500 has declined by about 4%. Is this Apple contagion… a cyclical stock being cyclical… an out of favor sector… or something else?
- - -
The drop yesterday and today doesn’t bother me at all; that’s just FUD. What I’m at a loss to explain is why the stock price has been in decline since last summer.

Some things that may be worth consideration:

  1. Any “slowdown” may not be limited to one or two quarters.

  2. The relationship/ratio between the Russell 2000 [smallcap, $RUT] versus the S&P Composite [largecap, $SPX]. [see chart below]

“This relationship has completed a top whose roots go back to the beginning of the century. That’s a pretty big top and suggests that we are witnessing a major change in this relationship equivalent to or of even greater significance than that which developed in the late 1990’s.”

  • Martin Pring

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24RUT%3A%24SPX&p=W&…

  1. The semiconductor sector has been in a downtrend since June 2015.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=SMH&p=W&yr=1&mn…

  1. Monthly chart for SWKS; not a pretty picture.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=SWKS&p=M&yr=8&m…

The market knows best.
Sometimes the market overrides the fundamentals.

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What would the 1YPEG be for SWKS? Still trying to figure that out.

At today’s price, the spreadsheet shows 1YPEG at 0.21

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H_v6WOjFi81rM3TH9ZHS…

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Saul after reading your post I am reminded of Buffet’s saying - “be greedy when others are fearful”.

That being said, I humbly submit in a similar situation with 20% allocation to SWKS, I would have a lot of worry and would feel pressured to sell. So in that, I admire your courage and conviction.

Best,
Ani.
a small 1.65% current but growing allocation to SWKS

They do about 20% of their sales with Apple as I remember.

Per the most recent 10-K, for 2015 Foxconn represented 44% of revenue. Presumably, most (and maybe all) of this was Apple…and most (but not all) of that was iPhone.

What portion of SWKS revenue comes from smartphones?

I’m curious why you asked this.

Is it fearing that there is risk in having a large percentage of revenue from just one product category?

IIRC, about 70% of revenue is from pocket computers…I mean smartphones. And that’s likely to increase.

So is this a worry? I don’t think so. For there is not much in the business world that is more certain than the fact that pocket computers 1) are here to stay, 2) that there are still billions who do not have one, and 3) of those that do, there are billions who do not yet–but eventually will–have 4G (which represents about triple the revenue per phone vs. 3G). Frankly, I find comfort in owning a business that relies on this tsunami.

Morningstar’s DCF model puts fair value at $92, although with a fair amount of risk around that value. Rates SWKS 4-star (out of 5)

Honestly, if you believe that some guy at Morningstar understands a business better than you, then indexing may be a better option. Long ago, I used to put weight in Morningstar. But then I found that they more often guided me wrong than right.

The rumor is easy to ignore. Less easy to ignore is why, in spite of the stellar quarterly reports, SWKS has declined by about 35% over the past six months while the S&P 500 has declined by about 4%. Is this Apple contagion… a cyclical stock being cyclical… an out of favor sector… or something else?

While it is very important to always think about whether or not there is some substantive business problem that is leading the stock lower, you’ll have a very hard time with successful investing (and will miss some of the very best opportunities) if you let Mr. Market inform you, rather than take advantage of him. This is Ben Graham and Warren Buffett 101. As often as not, there is no good reason why a stock is down. And once it goes down a fair amount, then it often goes down much more simply because (as you may be doing here), people get freaked out when a stock is collapsing…assuming there must be bad news.

So, how is Mr. Market failing with Skyworks?

  1. People perennially are paranoid about Apple’s future (wrongly…iPhone is stronger now than ever before)…and since they tend to equate Skyworks with Apple, then when the market is down on Apple, this spills over to SWKS,

  2. people fear that the pocket computer (smartphone) market is approaching saturation, so SWKS growth will plateau. What they are failing to understand it that 4G is in early innings, and 4G leads to multiples of revenue vs. 3G/2G,

  3. I suspect many view Skyworks as just a commodity widget maker. Yet they fail to appreciate that it has instead become one of only a few businesses that are intergrated-system and solutions providers,

  4. they worry that if Skyworks lost Apple, they’d get hammered. But what they fail to realize is that Skyworks is more important to Apple than vice versa. iPhone accounts for the overwhelming majority of Apple’s profits. The solution that Skyworks provides is absolutely critical to the performance of the iPhone, yet it is an absolutely tiny portion of the bill of materials. So why in the world would Apple take the risk with an alternate supplier…who would have a significant risk of not being reliable to provide a quarter of a billion units over the next year? Certainly not to save $1. So unless someone comes along able to offer a dramatically better offering (which is extraordinarily unlikely), this won’t happen. Moreover, it’s not happening in the next two years, period? How do I know? Because Apple is already done designing the iPhone 7 and 7S, and if Skyworks wasn’t in that, Skyworks would not be upping all of their earnings estimates for the next two years. Indeed, I suspect that they are already collaborating with Apple on iPhone 8…as well as Apple Watch with cellular (go back and read last conference call questions, where CEO discussed “wearables”.)

  5. Well what about the threat that Qualcomm will take over by integrating all the Skyworks functionality with their cellular chip? Could happen, but I think very unlikely. First of all, Skyworks has been building expertise for this over many years; why should we think all of a sudden Qualcomm can do better? Maybe more importantly, I think Apple understands that it would absolutely not be in Apple’s interest to have Qualcomm develop even more market power than they currently have. Indeed, there are credible rumors that Apple is working on designing their own cellular chips, which would make them even less likely to choose Qualcomm over Skyworks.

Bottom line, this panic over Skyworks is presenting an outrageously attractive price for an outrageously attractive business. I’m right there with Saul in making this my #1 position, and a large portion of my portfolio. When you get a pitch this fat, if you don’t load up, you won’t profit much. For someone buying in the mid-60’s and holding for a long time, this will likely end up being one of the best investments of your life. And the realistic worst-case scenario? Likely just dead money for a prolonged period. The thing I fear the most is that someone will come and acquire them for a 50% premium over this crazy-low price.

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As far as all the assumptions of badness for Skyworks based on the earnings warnings and rumors of others, I find this interesting:

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2016/01/06/skyworks…

With shares of wireless chip maker Skyworks Solutions (SWKS) down today on worries over rumored cuts in Apple‘s (AAPL) iPhone production, chief executive David Aldrich was kind enough to talk with me for a few minutes on show floor at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas.

Unprompted by me, Aldrich offered that “with what’s going on this week, with our stock down, what always helps us is that we are not just in any one vendor’s product, we are in all the OEMs,” meaning the company’s RF “front end module,” which includes the power amplifier but increasingly things such as power management chips that make up as much as a third of what Skyworks gets from some products.

“And also, and I will commit to investors, and to your readers, with each new generation of these things,” he picked up a phone siting on the conference table, “we will get a higher share of the content in them”

Unbridled optimism like this just doesn’t make sense for a CEO who knows he is going to have to present poor earnings in a couple weeks…if that were the case, you would expect him to try to gently prepare investors for that.

Between the November investor presentation, and the November earnings conference call (when they upped the forecast from $7 to $8 within two years), to this interview…this sure seems like a man who is enormously confident in the future of his business. And as he repeatedly says, a large part of this confidence is that given that Skyworks is being engaged very early in the product development of its customers, he has great visibility into that future…this isn’t just wishful thinking or unfounded optimism.

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