In the investor conference that Saul posted SWKSmentioned their samsung win being in their world phone which is a different s7 than the teardown posted. The teardown was of the USA phone. Both are called the galaxy s7 but the worldphone uses samsung’s 8890 SOC and the usa phone uses qualcomm’s 820. Anyways, completely different phone, skyworks is in the world phone. No issues here of lost business as far as I can tell.
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In almost any manufacturing field suppliers are at a disadvantage. Including SWKS. Manufacturers always want more than one supplier for critical parts so they can play one against the other.
If the end product is sold to the general public the manufacturer can sell it based on many things other than a pure performance/cost ratio. Not so with a supplier.
There are 2 main ways a stock can increase in price . Higher earnings or higher P/E ratio. With SWKS you probably have only the former.
long SWKS but not with any deep conviction. I do think there is a moat but not a deep one. Certainly not a Polaroid Xerox or ISRG type moat.
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The teardown was of the USA phone. Both are called the galaxy s7 but the worldphone uses samsung’s 8890 SOC and the usa phone uses qualcomm’s 820. Anyways, completely different phone, skyworks is in the world phone. No issues here of lost business as far as I can tell.
Where did you get this information?
How many USA phones are expected to sell and how many world phones are expected to sell?
What is the SWKS $ content in the world phone and how does this compare to the content in the S6 phone?
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[QUOTE]Where did you get this information?
How many USA phones are expected to sell and how many world phones are expected to sell?
What is the SWKS $ content in the world phone and how does this compare to the content in the S6 phone?
[/QUOTE]
http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/samsu…
I may be missing something here…is SWKS in samsung’s 8890 SOC?
In the investor conference that Saul posted SWKSmentioned their samsung win being in their world phone which is a different s7 than the teardown posted. The teardown was of the USA phone. Both are called the galaxy s7 but the worldphone uses samsung’s 8890 SOC and the usa phone uses qualcomm’s 820. Anyways, completely different phone, skyworks is in the world phone.
I will hopefully get to listen to the presentation tonight. And while this answer explains some of the mystery, I still don’t like that SWKS moat is less than what we thought it was if it can be replaced by other manufacturers.
Matt
Long SWKS
MasterCard (MA) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx
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Well lets try that again.
Where did you get this information?
http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/samsu… They don’t explicitly say but they mention the SOC is the qualcomm 820 which is in the USA phone.
http://anandtech.com/show/10120/the-samsung-galaxy-s7-review… one of many many many resources about the difference between world phone and USA/China/Japan phone.
and then finally
http://investors.skyworksinc.com//eventdetail.cfm?eventid=17… about halfway through when they mention design win in the world phone.
How many USA phones are expected to sell and how many world phones are expected to sell? not a clue
What is the SWKS $ content in the world phone and how does this compare to the content in the S6 phone?
we don’t have a teardown yet but if you believe their conference on march 8th that saul provided the link to somewhere around 10-12 dollars of TAM in the s6, and 18 dollars in 3 years. No idea about skyworks portion of that though.
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I will hopefully get to listen to the presentation tonight. And while this answer explains some of the mystery, I still don’t like that SWKS moat is less than what we thought it was if it can be replaced by other manufacturers.
I think I know why Skyworks isn’t in the Galaxy S7 (US version) where as it is in the Galaxy S6 (US version). The international version will definitely have Skyworks, here is why.
The Galaxy S7 switched back to using a Qualcomm SoC for US versions of the phone. Qorvo RF modules are part of the Qualcomm reference design. So anything with a Qualcomm SoC will usually have Qorvo RF modules and not Skyworks. Skyworks is part of other designs including those using Apple SoCs, MediaTek, and Samsung in house Exynos. The last part is important as it almost guarantees that Skyworks will be in the Samsung Galaxy S7 International edition which uses an Exynos SoC.
So then the question is, “is there a moat”? My answer is yes! It is harder to replace analog solutions as there aren’t many players and the design lead time is so significant you might as well stick to a known entity. Even though it is possible it would be very difficult. Thus I don’t see Skyworks being replaced in the design partnerships they are already in (and conversely I don’t see them going into Qualcomm devices). The three players are Avago (now Broadcom), Qorvo, and Skyworks. Call it a Triopoly if you will. There will be new entrants, but the expertise level for designing and producing analog processors is exponentially more difficult. Thus only a handful of companies can do it, Skyworks being one of them.
In short I think SWKS is fine and should reap the rewards of the transition to 4G and 5G cellular across a broad range of devices.
Sincerely,
Charlie
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Pardon my ignorance, but would the choice of Qualcomm’s SoC have anything to do with CDMA-based phones (Verizon) versus GSM phones (AT&T)? Since Qualcomm ‘owns’ CDMA licensing, maybe the Verizon and other CDMA-based carriers will get these phones, but SWKS will still be in the global and US GSM phones?
Tiptree, Fool One guide, out of his element
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Pardon my ignorance, but would the choice of Qualcomm’s SoC have anything to do with CDMA-based phones (Verizon) versus GSM phones (AT&T)? Since Qualcomm ‘owns’ CDMA licensing, maybe the Verizon and other CDMA-based carriers will get these phones, but SWKS will still be in the global and US GSM phones?
Dear Tiptree,
Although we are starting to see more SoCs integrate the cellular modem/radio, you can still separate them. Most likely all U.S. based phones will be Qualcomm regardless of carrier with slight variations supporting the different radio bands and technologies.
Remember the last generation Galaxy S6 was all Exynos, both U.S. and Global. They had different subversions supporting each regions/carriers cellular technology.
Thus I do not think there SoC choice was based on cellular support although that may be a small factor.
Sincerely,
Charlie
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Charlie,
Thank you very much for that reply. I knew that if there was an explanation, somebody would be able to come up with it on these boards. Just another instance of these boards proving how invaluable they are.
Matt
Long SWKS
MasterCard (MA) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx
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The Galaxy S7 switched back to using a Qualcomm SoC for US versions of the phone. Qorvo RF modules are part of the Qualcomm reference design. So anything with a Qualcomm SoC will usually have Qorvo RF modules and not Skyworks.
That would be the reason Charlie. I hadn’t appreciated Qualcomm had a Qorvo reference alliance. With the 820 making a comeback after Qualcomm hot the skids with the China licensing issues and the 810 overheating issues we should watch carefully whether its uptake produces other reference led switching away from Skyworks.
Ant
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I think I know why Skyworks isn’t in the Galaxy S7 (US version) where as it is in the Galaxy S6 (US version). The international version will definitely have Skyworks, here is why.
The Galaxy S7 switched back to using a Qualcomm SoC for US versions of the phone. Qorvo RF modules are part of the Qualcomm reference design. So anything with a Qualcomm SoC will usually have Qorvo RF modules and not Skyworks. Skyworks is part of other designs including those using Apple SoCs, MediaTek, and Samsung in house Exynos. The last part is important as it almost guarantees that Skyworks will be in the Samsung Galaxy S7 International edition which uses an Exynos SoC.
Maybe so, Charlie, but we still haven’t seen definitive information that confirms that SWKS is any of the S7 phones.
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The teardown analysis of the Galaxy S7 G930F Exynos variant has just started and is WIP.
It is being reported on here. Too early to tell on the Skyworks read yet but worth monitoring…
Ant
http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/galax…
Last week, we were fortunate enough to receive a Galaxy S7 Edge G935T based on the Snapdragon 820 chipset, and this week we get our first look into the Exynos variant, the Galaxy S7 G930F. We like to look at all major phone releases across their many different models, as we know that there are differences in who wins what sockets in the different regional models.
Over the years Samsung has demonstrated that they will put the best device in a socket that they can. Even if Samsung designs and manufacturers a competitive device, they will not use theirs if it can be beat by an external supplier. Case in point, Samsung could have put their CMOS image sensors in the phone, but they chose Sony’s because Sony offers the best quality and price. If the Samsung CMOS image sensor had been better and more cost effective, it would have been employed. Samsung uses the best overall device they can, whenever they can. Let’s see what the differences are for the G935T and the G930F.
We’ve only just received the G930F, so our teardown will evolve over the coming days. Our first look inside the G930F reveals some similarities and some differences.
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Just a quick FYI, there is no email address for Skyworks’ IR department that that I could find on their site. I did call today and left a message. I will see if they call back.
Matt
Long SWKS
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See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx
Matt
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101217005029/en/Comp…
I’m sure the IR email you want is
Stephen.Ferranti@skyworksinc.com
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Thank you F1Fun. I sent them an email tonight. Hopefully we will hear something back next week sometime.
Matt
Long SWKS
MasterCard (MA) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx
Got link about Skyworks being in World phone? Haven’t seen this confirmed by Chipworks or any other tear down report.
Gclever88 - sorry still haven’t seen tear down reports with Skyworks confirmation. I’ve seen benchmark reports and I have seen confirmation of the Samsung chip but that doesn’t help much.
Cheers
Ant
I think it’s important not to jump to conclusions. We should verify what the dollar content for SWKS in the Galaxy 7. Just because there are fewer SWKS chips does not mean less SWKS content as some chips are worth several dollars and some are worth pennies. Also, multiple chips can be combined in one chip. So what really happened???
Based on a tear-down report I read, Skyworks got zero content. That is absolutely cause for concern.
http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/samsu…
The $64B question is why?
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