some things never change

iirc, Tim has commented that the Warsaw Pact was something of a paper tiger. Huge numbers of tanks and artillery, but they did not have enough trucks to keep all that hardware supplied during combat.

Guess what…

‘Stiff Ukrainian resistance’ thwarts Russian advances, inflicts casualties

“Russian forces are not making the progress they had planned. They are suffering from logistical challenges and strong Ukrainian resistance,” the U.K.’s Ministry of Defence said on its verified Twitter account.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/27/stiff-ukrainian-resistance-c…

I was expecting the Ukrainians to end up like the Greeks in 1941, fighting like tigers, until they run out of stuff, because the Russians would block roads and rail lines to Poland and Romania. What if the Russians run out too? Anyone still use bayonets?

Steve

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iirc, Tim has commented that the Warsaw Pact was something of a paper tiger. Huge numbers of tanks and artillery, but they did not have enough trucks to keep all that hardware supplied during combat.

A very interesting story.

As a very young infantryman driving APCs in the Fulda Gap I was also expected to respond when the call for “Snipers Up” came on the radio (nobody had just one job). During a field briefing we were told that given a choice of a young Soviet officer, his radio man or his driver … shoot the driver. The Russians of the day didn’t grow up learning to drive like we Westerners did and there were never enough drivers. I filed it as one of those silly stories but many years later our building Superintendent was a former Russian Major and I mentioned the story. He assured me it was absolute true. His father was a Lt/Col in charge of a missile base in Eastern Russia and taught him how to drive the school bus at 11 so the kids from the base could go to school in a village too far to walk.

Added details, tanks were a great propaganda thing so they built and announced thousands of them. Trucks didn’t get the same attention so there were never enough. The Soviet invasion success would have relied on captured fuel supplies to keep it moving … something NATO was fully aware of and fully planned to make sure that it didn’t happen. No different than the fatal last German offensive in the Ardennes.

Fast forward to my programming job in Geilenkirchen one of my Logistics programming tasks was to maintain the fuel inventory records program for the base. I also converted it from the old Mapper to Oracle.

Tim

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Added details, tanks were a great propaganda thing so they built and announced thousands of them. Trucks didn’t get the same attention so there were never enough. The Soviet invasion success would have relied on captured fuel supplies to keep it moving … something NATO was fully aware of and fully planned to make sure that it didn’t happen. No different than the fatal last German offensive in the Ardennes.

Obviously, all anecdotal, but I viewed some social media videos this morning about the situation in Ukraine. One was of abandoned Russian armor, including a T-90. There was no visible damage, so I’m guessing they just ran out of fuel.

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Obviously, all anecdotal, but I viewed some social media videos this morning about the situation in Ukraine. One was of abandoned Russian armor, including a T-90. There was no visible damage, so I’m guessing they just ran out of fuel.

Those that ignore logistics are doomed to lose.

Having said that, the T-90 is just an upgraded T-72 variant. It suffered from the same flaw as all of the T-70 variants which is they have a three man crew and a autoloader for the main gun. Why is that a flaw you may ask … well when an Abrams or Leopard breaks a track the four man crew can fix it themselves. When a T-70 broke a track in oh say rocky ground in say Afghanistan they have to wait for help to arrive … hopefully before the Afgan fighters finish them off. Oh and the autoloader was reputed to occasionally load the gunners forearm rather than the selected round for the main gun. Of course training was always far less than what was normal in Western military forces.

Tim

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Having said that, the T-90 is just an upgraded T-72 variant. It suffered from the same flaw as all of the T-70 variants which is they have a three man crew and a autoloader for the main gun. Why is that a flaw you may ask … well …

In case anyone is curious, my last “Flying” job was as an AESOp instructor on Sea Kings in Shearwater. They had closed the Basic Aircrew training course in Winterpeg and we took over the task of teaching basic AESOp. Under the no one job rule my specialty was teaching Recce to all the Sea King aircrew (Pilots, TacNavs as well as the newbie AESOps). While we focused on Soviet Ships and Aircraft we had access to all of the classified Intel on all systems (Land, Sea and Air).

We didn’t always have courses in house so I also worked Squadron Operations mostly night shift and spent a lot of time going through the Intel stuff. This is also when I spent a lot of time teaching myself such things as spreadsheets and dBase on the new PC they put on my desk.

When the Russians found a system that worked well they would use it on multiple platforms. Everyone had 23MM guns on ships, aircraft and Army Air Defense. They also sold lots of stuff to nations such as Egypt, Syria, and a host of others.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Soviet+23MM+anti+aircraft+gu…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-23

The navy replaced their 23MM Gatling gun on ships with a 30MM upgrade.

Another somewhat related story, while the standard medium mortar in the West was the 81mm the soviet version was 82mm. The idea was that while an 82mm mortar bomb would not fire in an 81mm mortar captured 81mm mortar ammo would fire (with a slight wobble) in an 82mm mortar.

The Soviets also copied the western standard SPR (Single Point Refueling) nozzle for their aircraft in case fuel was available on a captured base.

None of this was a secret, it helps to know what they were up to.

It is really hard to train a soldier up to a reasonable standard when you only have one year to do it on a mostly unwilling draftee.

Anymouse

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Obviously, all anecdotal, but I viewed some social media videos this morning about the situation in Ukraine. One was of abandoned Russian armor, including a T-90. There was no visible damage, so I’m guessing they just ran out of fuel.

Wondering if there are any defectors from the Russian army…

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Steve: iirc, Tim has commented that the Warsaw Pact was something of a paper tiger. Huge numbers of tanks and artillery, but they did not have enough trucks to keep all that hardware supplied during combat.

Added details, tanks were a great propaganda thing so they built and announced thousands of them. Trucks didn’t get the same attention so there were never enough. The Soviet invasion success would have relied on captured fuel supplies to keep it moving … something NATO was fully aware of and fully planned to make sure that it didn’t happen. No different than the fatal last German offensive in the Ardennes.

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Tim has commented that the Warsaw Pact was something of a paper tiger. Huge numbers of tanks and artillery, but they did not have enough trucks to keep all that hardware supplied during combat.

I have heard it said that the Soviet Union won WW2 with Studebaker trucks supplied through Iran.

STUDEBAKER US6: THE LEND-LEASE ‘DEUCE AND A HALF’
www.historynet.com/studebaker-us6-the-lend-lease-deuce-and-a….
GMC’s primary consumer for the truck was the Army. International Harvester built its own version, the M-5H-6, for the U.S. Navy and Marines, while Studebaker built the US6 model primarily for the Allies through the Lend-Lease program.

Studebaker built 105,917 six-wheel drive versions and 87,742 four-wheel drive versions of the US6 between 1941 and 1945, in 13 variations…Of that total the United States shipped 152,000 trucks to the Soviet Union, mainly through the Persian Corridor. The Russians found the “Studer,” as they affectionately nicknamed it, robust and reliable, and its logistic contribution made it arguably the most significant American-supplied piece of hardware the Soviets used.

DB2

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I have heard it said that the Soviet Union won WW2 with Studebaker trucks supplied through Iran.

Which were a truly wonderful asset as the vaunted mechanized Nazi WWII Wehrmacht were forced to rely on horsepower literally due to shortages of fuel.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-ho…

The WWII German Army was 80% Horse Drawn; Business Lessons from History

The bulk of the German Army—the dough feet of the normal infantry divisions—moved on shank’s mare. The rifle companies’ transport consisted of three-horse wagons, on which the troops loaded their packs, as did this outfit on campaign in Russia in the summer of 1941.

When a massive number of retreating Germans were caught in the Falaise Pocket and pounded by airpower the troops that finally mopped up the survivors were shocked at the massive number of dead horses.

Any … War is Heck … mouse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falaise_pocket

The area in which the pocket had formed was full of the remains of battle.[74] Villages had been destroyed, and derelict equipment made some roads impassable. Corpses of soldiers and civilians littered the area, along with thousands of dead cattle and horses.[75] In the hot August weather, maggots crawled over the bodies, and swarms of flies descended on the area.[75][76] Pilots reported being able to smell the stench of the battlefield hundreds of feet above it.[75] General Eisenhower recorded that:

The battlefield at Falaise was unquestionably one of the greatest “killing fields” of any of the war areas. Forty-eight hours after the closing of the gap I was conducted through it on foot, to encounter scenes that could be described only by Dante. It was literally possible to walk for hundreds of yards at a time, stepping on nothing but dead and decaying flesh.[77]

—?Dwight Eisenhower

Not OT, just heard another Russian General was KIA.

Not OT, just heard another Russian General was KIA.

To add insult, the Russians are complaining that their secure communications are not secure.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/vitaly-gerasim…

Vitaly Gerasimov: second Russian general killed, Ukraine defence ministry claims

Ukrainian intelligence says major general in Russia’s 41st army died outside Kharkiv along with other senior officers

The ministry also broadcast what it claimed was a conversation between two Russian FSB officers discussing the death and complaining that their secure communications were no longer functioning inside Ukraine.

Perhaps Vlad will call up his old buddy Bashar al-Assad to see if he will let him crash on the couch for awhile?

Anymouse

Note: some people ask if I trust the source. Generally if it is something that can easily be proven or not proven by the other side there is no advantage to lying about it … so yes I do … at least until the Russians can show us a vibrant Vitaly on camera speaking about todays news.

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