Syria Saga not Over Yet?

It is starting to look like the fight for northern Syria could be much bigger than anyone expected, as Turkey is massing troops along the border.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-fears-military-buildup-by-turkey-signals-preparations-for-incursion-into-syria/ar-AA1vZr3s
Senior U.S. officials say Turkey and its militia allies are building up forces along the border with Syria, raising alarm that Ankara is preparing for a large-scale incursion into territory held by American-backed Syrian Kurds.

Apparently the Turks are serious about crushing the Kurds.

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And you guys sneered at Erdoğan’s dreams of the Ottoman Empire, and Bolton’s idea of redrawing maps to bring all the Sunni areas under one government.

Steve

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Rarely is there a time when maps are casually “redrawn” without an immense amount of bloodshed.

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I presume Erdoğan has been in touch with TFG, to make sure the USian troops are quickly gotten out of the way.

Steve

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Still do. Turkey might invade a portion of the north of Syria and crush the Kurds. They’re not going to re-establish the Ottoman Empire - or even absorb Syria.

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Funny thing. The CBS “news” this evening, did not say a word about any Turkish buildup along the border. They reran a piece from a day or two ago, about “the Assad narco state”, and a potato chip factory that had supposedly been turned into a drug lab under Assad’s auspices.

Steve

Who is going to tell Erdoğan “no”? The group the US and UK call “terrorists”? And once the Turks have overrun the Kurdish part of Syria, and any more they fell like taking, who will stop them invading the Kurdish area of northern Iraq, where all that lovely oil is? Baghdad can’t say “no”. Northern Iraq is a “semi-autonomous region”, because Baghdad can’t enforce it’s rule there now.

Steve

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What else did the Saudi’s ante up all that money for wise investment by the first son-in-law of TN&FG? Hmmm?

Syria is the heartland of the Sunni Arab civil population, and they have just been through a very long period under external rule, now have organized experienced men in arms, and truly detest the idea of another external potentate.

Money and arms from Saudi’s and others (Israel very possible on the “down low”) would make Erdogan indulgance of Imperial Ottoman nostalgia very very costly. Could happen, but I do think Edorgan has enough trouble at home and enough satisfaction abroad for now.

d fb.

If we’re truly talking about resurrecting the Ottoman Empire, even at its last and smallest gasp, it included most of Iraq, Syria, virtually all of Lebanon and Palestine (current Israel and the Palestinian territories) and great swaths of Saudi Arabia.

So, “Who is going to tell Erdoğan “no”?” All of those sovereign nations, not just Syria.

Pete

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NATO, for one. Erdogan can probably move in there and attack all the Kurds under the guise of fighting terrorist/restoring order. But if he tries to modified the boundaries of his country to include part of what is now Syria, he runs the real risk of getting tossed out of NATO - which is utterly committed to the Westphalian model.

There’s also the same forces that said “no” to US control of Afghanistan and Iraq. Not the same people, of course, but the same impulse. Syrians are not going to want to be conquered, and have a lot of ways to make it very painful for the conquering nation if one tries.

And as pointed out above, Syria =/= “the Ottoman Empire.” Lots of other sovereign nations would also have to be taken out - including the militarily powerful (and nuclear armed) Israel and the very economically powerful Saudi Arabia.

Not gonna happen.

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Turkey has occupied a big slice of Cyprus since the 70s. Turkey now occupies a small slice of Iraq.

Remember 43 blustering “we don’t need a permission slip”?

”Nobody knows who the other side is, but I do. You know it is Turkey, OK? Turkey is the one behind it,” he said. “And those people that went in are controlled by Turkey, and that’s OK.”

“I think Turkey is very smart. [Erdogan] is a very smart guy, he’s very tough,” Trump said, “but Turkey did an unfriendly takeover without a lot of lives being lost.”

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It’s not the 1970’s any more, and Turkey hasn’t annexed or absorbed the small slice of Iraq. The international community generally has a much dimmer view of countries acquiring territory from their neighbors through military means any more, and the past instances where that happened (like Cyprus, definitely like Israel/Palestine) have caused nothing but problems. So Turkey would face a wall of international opprobrium if they tried to adjust their borders to absorb any material part of what is now another country.

Sure. But Turkey isn’t the U.S., and the U.S. didn’t try to absorb Iraq as a new part of the sovereign territory of the U.S.

Turkey may very well invade Syria to crush the Kurds and dominate what happens in the north of Syria. But they’re not going to absorb a part of Syria and add it to their borders like some expanding empire of old.

I expect Syria will follow in Libyan footsteps and become a breeding ground of terrorists. The new terrorists will be created by those who bombed them in the destruction of the Assad regime:US, Israel, & Turkey.
Ending Assad has not transformed Syria. It will remain a problem area.

Good Lord!

The US first, officially, intervened in Syria in 2014, so O-man and TFG can claim “credit” too.

Remember the “phases of a project”? Isn’t one of the steps “honors and praise for the uninvolved”?

Steve

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It was late 2013 and the Syrian army had just fired rockets filled with poisonous gas at the town of Harasta, the latest in a series of such attacks on the rebel-held Ghouta region…It was not the only chemical attack on the Ghouta region that year.

There had been warnings from Barack Obama, the then US president, that the deployment of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime would cross “a red line for us” and trigger a Western military response.

But Bashar al-Assad, Syria’s fallen president, called the West’s bluff, launching a series of nerve-agent attacks across Ghouta, the worst of which, a sarin strike, killed more than 1,000 people on Aug 21 2013 in the deadliest night of the country’s 13-year civil war.

Yet, in what would become the defining foreign policy moment of the Obama presidency, the United States and its main ally Britain shied away from military action.

DB2

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Saddam gassed Iraqis too. The US didn’t care, because Saddam’s regime was useful for killing Iranians. An Iraqi warplane his a US Navy warship with an Exocet missile. No problem. Because Iraq was useful for killing Iranians.

laff break

One of the pump seal company’s big jobs in the late 70s was a chemical complex near Basrah, Iraq. When Saddam decided to take advantage of the upheaval in Iran, Basrah was pretty much on the front line. One day, the pump seal company’s rep who had called on the GC for the plant in Basrah, called me up. I say “hey Frank, SODIC called. The Iranians bombed the daylights out of the plant in Basrah. They want you to go over there and work up a replacement parts list”. Poor Frank about lost it.

Steve

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Don’t forget weapons of mass destruction. They inclucde chemical weapons.

DB2

Different USian regime. Different priorities. iirc, the price of oil, before the invasion, was about $18/barrel. Talking heads on bubblevision went on and on about, once the Iraqi regime was knocked off, US oil companies would go in, develop the daylights out of the Iraqi reserves, flood the market with oil, and the price would drop. Of course, the exact opposite happened.

Pursuant to that new objective, all evidence that Saddam had gotten rid of all his WMDs was dismissed. The US demanded Saddam bring out his WMDs, which, of course, he could not, as everything had been destroyed, as he said. The UN sent teams in to search for the WMDs. They found nothing. #43 told the UN teams to get out of the country, as he was going to attack. After the war, search teams looked and looked, and found nothing. But, curiously, Fox Noise viewers thought all of the US claims had been validated, WMDs were found.

Steve

He did a lot of good.

Don’t pretend you can pull a Carter complaint without reason again.

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