The Einstein of energy efficiency.

Energy efficiency guru Amory Lovins: ‘It’s the largest, cheapest, safest, cleanest way to address the crisis
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/26/amory-lo…

Temperatures dropped far below freezing this week in Snowmass, Colorado. But Amory Lovins, who lives high up in the mountains at 7,200ft above sea level, did not even turn on the heating.

That’s because he has no heating to turn on. His home, a great adobe and glass mountainside eyrie that he designed in the 1980s, collects solar energy and is so well insulated that he grows and harvests bananas and many other tropical fruits there without burning gas, oil or wood.

Nicknamed the “Einstein of energy efficiency”, Lovins, an adjunct professor of civil and environmental engineering at Stanford University, has been one of the world’s leading advocates and innovators of energy conservation for 50 years.

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This works great in a sunny, cold area. Not so much in the PNW where it’s never that cold and it rains all winter. Too bad cuz the mindset is there.

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This works great in a sunny, cold area. Not so much in the PNW where it’s never that cold and it rains all winter. Too bad cuz the mindset is there.

And, just FYI, this particular part of east Texas, around Livingston, has winters pretty much like Seattle’s - approximately as wet and dreary and about 2 degrees warmer. (Less temp fluctuation, though.)

This works great in a sunny, cold area. Not so much in the PNW where it’s never that cold and it rains all winter. Too bad cuz the mindset is there.

Lots of volcanic activity in the PNW. Maybe geothermal energy is an option?

https://energy.mit.edu/news/these-12-mile-deep-holes-could-c…

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Maybe geothermal energy is an option?

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I think geothermal will eventually be the leading provider of clean energy in the world with solar, wind and nuclear following in that order. Fossil fuels will be a bad memory and only used for specialized needs.

Jaak

<this particular part of east Texas, around Livingston, has winters pretty much like Seattle’s - approximately as wet and dreary and about 2 degrees warmer. (Less temp fluctuation, though.) >

https://weatherspark.com/y/465/Average-Weather-in-Sequim-Was…

https://weatherspark.com/y/9640/Average-Weather-in-Livingsto…

Actually, Sequim, WA has less temperature fluctuation than Livingston, TX. Our winter temperatures are similar, as you noted, but our summers are much cooler than TX. Our daytime high averages 45 degrees in winter and 72 degrees in summer. Our summers are delightful – cool and clear, with clean air, low humidity and blue skies.

Wendy (not a fan of heat)

Anyone notice that the weather is not uniform world wide, year long?

The Captain
loves discoveries

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This works great in a sunny, cold area. Not so much in the PNW where it’s never that cold and it rains all winter. Too bad cuz the mindset is there.

In the article, it talks about Germany, Denmark, Sweden leading the way in building design. They are pretty grey and rainy all winter.

The future must be in the mass retrofitting of buildings with insulation and heat pumps and what he calls “outsolation”. “You can design out the pipes by putting a sort of tea cosy around houses, like the Dutch Energiesprong exterior retrofit. They can superinsulate your house to net zero standard in a single day whilst you’re at work, and meanwhile they’ve dropped in a very efficient heat pump core for mechanicals, and put on a super-insulated solar roof. And when you get back, you pay them rather than your energy companies.”

I’m a bit skeptical that this can be done in a day, but some of the houses around me have had a similar retrofit that took a couple days.

In Luxembourg, new houses are built to a Near Zero Energy standard. We bought a few years ago and our house has 10" thick exterior insulation and triple pane windows throughout. Heat comes from hot water solar on the roof, which circulates through the floors. When it can’t keep up, there is an air driven heat pump. Our annual electricity bill is $800 for a 1600 sqft home. That’s heat pump, hot water, appliances, lighting, everything.

And trust me, our winters are cold and grey.

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https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/a-passivhaus-de…

Maybe if the weather was more mild, like Fairbanks it would work?

Cheers
Qazulight

I think geothermal will eventually be the leading provider of clean energy in the world …

I tend to agree. The only caveat I can see is if at some later time we figure out that pulling heat out of (pushing cold into) the core of the earth is harmful in some way. Like we learned that pushing excess CO2 into the upper atmosphere is harmful.

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Heard him speak several times.

Passive solar houses work well in DRY high elevation locations. Like CO, Alpine TX (5000+ feet AMSL) and other locations.

Many locations have a humidity problem. Does nothing to super insulate your house - when you have to run the a/c to get the humidity inside out.

there was a builder in TX of ‘net zero energy houses’ and I followed him. Looked at doing that. Unfortunately, a ‘net zero house’ cost about 35 to 40% more than a conventional house. Yes, it would save you $100 or $200 a month on utilities (at that time 20 year ago) but with 20 year payback. Heck, most folks stay in their houses less than 10 years, often 5 or less. You’d have a hard time selling at a 35% premium to the market.

Yes, you can design for super insulation. They do in Sweden with triple pane windows, super closing insulated doors that ratchet all the way closed, thicker walls, etc.

Even here, I could put in triple pane windows. Could have built my house with 2x6s instead of 2x4 outside walls. But the payback was 10+ years and few people are willing to pay for ‘super insulation’ over granite counters and tile floors and an extra bedroom

Now, as housing prices increase, as the cost of a super insulated house increases - it’s going to be tough to sell the ‘super insulation’ bit with 10-20 year payback. Or have a contract by third parties that obligates any future house purchaser to continue paying for the upgrades.

As for heat pumps. I had one in VA in the 70s. Crapped out after 5 years and cost me a bundle to fix. Nixed all ‘energy savings’ with that repair. Same in a second townhouse with heat pump. Died after 5 years and expensive repair bill. Maybe they are better, but typical a/c compressors die after less than 10 years - and they run half a year. run them all year as heat/ cool and you probably get 5 years out of one, and its $$$$$ to replace them.

Folks have tried to ‘fix’ the stick built house. Hasn’t worked. Yeah, you get your roof framing now done off site and delivered, but the majority of the house still done by hand. Foundation, walls, inside, etc.

You can build a house with SIPs (structural insulated panels) with high energy efficiency - but at a cost premium. Few do.

People like their big windows - energy hogs. Better windows now that 30 years ago. Retrofitting them can be tens of thousands. slow payback.

There are millions of poorly (or no insulation) homes that can benefit from a few thousand dollar upgrades. (wall insulation) but even there there are problems to be carefully considered - like old wiring in century old houses - maybe tube and knob - requiring an electrical rewire to put insulation in the walls. ( yeah, I’ve seen houses with tube and knob wiring).

New houses are much better than before but could be better. But at some cost premium. Just how MUCH additional are folks willing to spend? (would you rather have premium cabinets, granite counter tops, extra tile floors or wood floors, a SubZero fridge, fifth bedroom) or somewhat lower utility bills?

t.

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“In Luxembourg, new houses are built to a Near Zero Energy standard. We bought a few years ago and our house has 10” thick exterior insulation and triple pane windows throughout. Heat comes from hot water solar on the roof, which circulates through the floors. When it can’t keep up, there is an air driven heat pump. Our annual electricity bill is $800 for a 1600 sqft home. That’s heat pump, hot water, appliances, lighting, everything."

In the USA, that is a ‘tiny’ home. Most new houses are $3500 sq feet and up.

What are the current prices of houses in Luxemburg?

Yeah, 10 inch thick exterior and triple insulated windows…

Here, that would be a $15,000 to $30,000 upgrade for little energy savings over double pane windows. Most gain here is made by low E argon filled double pane. Over than is over-kill.

10 inch thick walls come at a big premium too.

(PS - my first home built in 1977 in VA was 1350 sq feet - but with full basement. only a small part of basement ‘finished’ but that’s where the heat/ hot water/ water tank/ washer dryer, workbench and storage was. ) Now I live in a ‘small’ TX house of 2400 sq feet - no basement. Most houses around be are 3500 sq feet to 4500 sq feet.

triple pane windows used only in northern US climes. As are 6 and 8 inch thick walls.

I looked at super insulating my house when built in 1990, but with utility bills of $100/month average - it just didn’t make sense. Now it might if you build new.

t.

Icelanders use geothermal resources to generate electricity, heat houses and swimming pools, grow food in greenhouses, recycle plastics, and produce a variety of skincare products. Furthermore, geothermal power plants have become a hotbed for innovation that deals directly with future challenges such as capturing carbon emissions.

The U.S. is experiencing increased interest in making use of geothermal resources under the Biden administration, with the U.S. Department of Energy announcing $20 million in funding for geothermal drilling technology projects, and $8.4 million for accessing geothermal potential from abandoned oil and gas wells. The U.S. has the most installed generation capacity of geothermal in the world, with 3,722 MW, and is looking to make even better use of the resource domestically.

https://www.powermag.com/iceland-offers-case-study-of-geothe…

Jaak

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The U.S. is experiencing increased interest in making use of geothermal resources under the Biden administration, with the U.S. Department of Energy announcing $20 million in funding for geothermal drilling technology projects…

It should be noted that most of the geothermal potential is where most of the people aren’t.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FwgShzqTeqY/TqrX5az1FnI/AAAAAAAAA…

DB2

DB2,

With the new drilling method, invented by MIT researchers or grads, going much deeper into rock is possible. You probably saw that topic here less than two weeks ago. New England is split by the Connecticut River. On one side of the river is a deep rock base. In fact waste water from fracking in PA is shipped to drill holes in western Connecticut for long term storage because of the rock formations. PA has softer rock layers where drinking water will get contaminated.

With the new drilling method, invented by MIT researchers or grads, going much deeper into rock is possible.

Even with the new technology, costs are going to be higher where there is lower energy density. I would think that we are likely to see it used first out west – Idaho, Arizona, Oregon etc. Or maybe California with their high electricity prices.

DB2

In fact waste water from fracking in PA is shipped to drill holes in western Connecticut

I can’t imagine that. Connecticut would tax and regulate the bejesus out of that kind of operation. It would be much cheaper to dump it on the sly in some hole in Central PA.

intercst

It should be noted that most of the geothermal potential is where most of the people aren’t.

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That is what they used to say about hydro, wind, solar and nuclear power. However, engineers long ago developed High Voltage Transmission lines that solve that problem. Look at the following examples:

Columbia River hydro electric plants provide electricity to distant Los Angeles area
Churchill Falls hydro electric plants provide electricity for Quebec Province

Wind farms in West Texas provide electricity to Dallas, Austin and rest of Texas
Wind farms in Iowa provide electricity to Chicago and rest of Iowa and Illinois

Solar farms in Nevada deserts provide electricity to Nevada, Southern California, and Arizona

Nuclear plant in Arizona provides electricity to Arizona, Nevada, Southern California, Utah, New Mexico and El Paso, Texas.

Jaak

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However, engineers long ago developed High Voltage Transmission lines that solve that problem. Look at the following examples…

True enough, but IIRC, there is/was no west-east connection to shift electricity from, say, Idaho to Chicago. Has that changed? If so, it would be useful for solar load shifting (the duck curve).

DB2

True enough, but IIRC, there is/was no west-east connection to shift electricity from, say, Idaho to Chicago. Has that changed? If so, it would be useful for solar load shifting (the duck curve).

DB2


The electrical power grid that powers Northern America is not a single grid, but is instead divided into multiple wide area synchronous grids. The Eastern Interconnection and the Western Interconnection are the largest. Three other regions include the Texas Interconnection, the Quebec Interconnection, and the Alaska Interconnection.

The regions are not usually directly connected or synchronized to each other, but there are some HVDC Interconnectors. The Eastern and Western grids are connected with 1.32 GW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmiss….

More HVDC transmission lines are in the planning and construction stage in all regions.

Solar shifting is already taking place within the Western grid: Solar to Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Pacific Northwest and Canada. This allows those areas to use less expensive coal during the sunlight hours.

Jaak