Car & Driver report:https://autos.yahoo.com/2022-toyota-tundra-hybrid-cant-20000…
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Seems a bit harsh to judge a full-size truck a ‘fail’ when it’s remarkably quick 0-60mph time of 5.7 seconds is edged by a few other trucks: most on tires much more suited to such a test than the Tundra’s all-terrain tires.
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Seems a bit harsh to judge a full-size truck a ‘fail’ when it’s remarkably quick 0-60mph time of 5.7 seconds is edged by a few other trucks: most on tires much more suited to such a test than the Tundra’s all-terrain tires.
I was going to say the same thing. The Tundra’s 0-60 time is 0.3 seconds slower than the competition. So yes, in those instances when you can’t spare 0.3 seconds off the line, the Tundra is not the vehicle for you. Since that criteria is important to exactly no one, I would not rate the Tundra as a fail for that reason.
And by the way, 0-60 in 5.7 seconds would crush almost any 1970s or 1980s era muscle car. Now it is considered slow.
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I bet the Tundra goes 100K miles w/o being in the shop 14 times, like my Silverado. … .
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It’s “Toyota Tundra Hybrid”
Hybrids are FrankenIceMonsters. 
The Captain
does not worry about hybrids, designed to defeat Green legislation
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designed to defeat Green legislation.
And to fill a need until total electric vehicles are affordable and more plentiful.
NH
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does not worry about hybrids, designed to defeat Green legislation
There is an anecdote about how automakers reacted to California’s air emission standards.
GM hired 200 lawyers.
Toyota hired 200 engineers.
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Hybrids are FrankenIceMonsters.
I tell everyone that you get the worst of both worlds. A too-small battery to be worth all that much, and all the maintenance headaches of an ICE. 
I’m partly kidding, you do get MUCH better mileage out of hybrid than out of a pure ICE, especially a plug-in hybrid. But for most people, an EV is far better.
I’m partly kidding, you do get MUCH better mileage out of hybrid than out of a pure ICE, especially a plug-in hybrid. But for most people, an EV is far better.
Hybrids would make sense if they were designed on the lines of the Diesel-Electric locomotives, an IC engine driving a generator and an all electric drive train. Simpler than a FrankenIceMonster, regenerative breaking, smaller battery pack than an EV, a lot more range, fast refueling, and even home charging. But that would not save the incumbent ICE drive train technology that is on its way out.
The Captain
I tell everyone that you get the worst of both worlds. A too-small battery to be worth all that much, and all the maintenance headaches of an ICE.
I’m partly kidding, you do get MUCH better mileage out of hybrid than out of a pure ICE, especially a plug-in hybrid.
I know you’re partly kidding, but I’ll rebut with the fact that the Prius has been a very reliable, low maintenance (for an ICE) car for its entire existence. I’ve owned my 2007 Prius for ~11 years now with no serious issues and still running great.
My experience with my 2012 Volt has also been quite good. I’ve owned it now for ~7 years and have only had to change the oil ~5 times, and have gotten about 1/2 my miles on electric power despite numerous trips out of town.
Both were bought after they were used several years by another owner, so I paid ~1/3 retail price for them. The only EV I could have bought for about the same price as the Volt at the time was a first generation Leaf, with it’s ~80 mile range and somewhat iffy battery reliability - not an attractive option for me. No regrets buying hybrids, and I may do it for my next car too. I would prefer to go full electric but price, range, utility and expected reliability will be important considerations, and another non-plug-in Prius will be a possibility for their great reliability, utility and affordability. I’m leaning toward a used Bolt, though.
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I know you’re partly kidding, but I’ll rebut with the fact that the Prius has been a very reliable, low maintenance (for an ICE) car for its entire existence. I’ve owned my 2007 Prius for ~11 years now with no serious issues and still running great.
My last three cars were Toyotas, great quality, low maintenance. Over three decades of satisfaction. The fact that the Prius shares these qualities does not arise from it being a hybrid. Just great Toyota quality cars.
The Captain
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Hybrids would make sense if they were designed on the lines of the Diesel-Electric locomotives, an IC engine driving a generator and an all electric drive train. Simpler than a FrankenIceMonster, regenerative breaking, smaller battery pack than an EV, a lot more range, fast refueling, and even home charging. But that would not save the incumbent ICE drive train technology that is on its way out.
I used to think this would be a better way, but Toyota’s CVT with the electric motor gear embedded right in it has proven to be robustly durable and more efficient than the setup you suggest.
GM, with the Volt, also decided it was worth the complexity to include a drivetrain mode of the ICE directly powering the wheels instead of acting as a generator, because of the efficiency gain.
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My last three cars were Toyotas, great quality, low maintenance. Over three decades of satisfaction. The fact that the Prius shares these qualities does not arise from it being a hybrid. Just great Toyota quality cars.
Well, there’s one aspect of Prius maintenance that is improved, for sure, by it’s being a hybrid: virtually never having to do any brake maintenance: no new brake pads, no new brake rotors, etc … because most of the braking is done by the electric motor, harvesting the kinetic energy, turning it into electric energy to be stored in the battery and used to help accelerate next time around.
And my experience with the Volt is drastically lowered ICE maintenance because it’s used much less and GM designed it to be able to go 2 years without an oil change if you mainly use electric power like I do.
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…has proven to be robustly durable and more efficient than the setup you suggest.
Has there ever been the setup I suggested on the road or is this just the PR from the automakers? I’m convinced the hybrids were just away to defeat the green legislation.
Consider also that Toyota and GM were not thinking Lithium ion batteries, that was a Tesla innovation. Did the original 1997 Prius use lead acid or nickel hydride?
The Captain
We have an ICE minivan bought used. It serves its purpose, but gets horrendous gas mileage. Luckily we don’t drive much nowadays. I bought a new Tesla a few months ago, Believe it or not, the new price was less than or equal to the price of a used one, a two year old one with 20,000 miles was priced roughly the same as a new one! And we also bought a used Leaf (the 150 mile range model from 2018) recently, it still reports 149 mile range when fully charged. The Tesla was our first new vehicle purchase since 2005.
I want to replace the minivan soon, even though it has a few more good years in it. I’d love to get an EV, but they don’t exist. So I would consider a hybrid, probably a Sienna hybrid. Or we may simply decide to do away with the 7-seater requirement (we are a 7 person family) and get a small SUV or similar in EV. Haven’t decided yet. It can wait a year or two if necessary.
I agree that 80 mile range is not very useful, except perhaps as a generic commuter car, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it - traffic, errands, emergencies, whatever can always come up.
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Has there ever been the setup I suggested on the road or is this just the PR from the automakers? I’m convinced the hybrids were just away to defeat the green legislation.
Yep, the BMW i3 plug-in hybrid is a pure serial hybrid like you describe, and it had relatively meh efficiency of 39 mpg (2014-16, lower in later models with bigger batteries) when running on gas, despite being an extraordinarily light vehicle with a carbon fiber body and a tiny underpowered gas engine. That’s barely better than the MUCH heavier Chevy Volt with a regular sized 4 cylinder engine.
I’ve personally been very happy with the value, performance and green credentials of my Chevy Volt.
Consider also that Toyota and GM were not thinking Lithium ion batteries, that was a Tesla innovation. Did the original 1997 Prius use lead acid or nickel hydride?
The original Prius used a Nickel hydride battery pack like later ones. Yeah, Tesla borrowed the innovation of using thousands of small Li Ion batteries assembled into a pack from AC Propulsion. It was a great idea and breakthrough.
https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a35673804/tes…
Great story!
Thanks,
The Captain