And that was what I put in quotes upthread.
DB2
Yeah, we’re going to have to do these as well. And it’ll all still not make enough of a dent in the $1.8T deficit.
1 Like
OR…
Just don’t renew the tax cuts. Renewing the tax cuts will cost us $4.3 trillion over the next 10 years. Let them expire (as designed) and that will eat a significant portion of the deficit (that exists in large part because of those cuts) with no need to do a thing.
8 Likes
How about we scrutinize every farm subsidy program’s execution in…say…Iowa?
Steve
7 Likes
She is actually a Lutheran and is probably why her eyes are shut.
3 Likes
We all know that there is no way to make a dent in the deficit through spending cuts without going after Defense, Medicare, and Social Security. All this stuff with USAID and Education is just symbolic window dressing to keep the masses happy.
We are going to have to raise taxes. There is no avoiding it. One cannot have a workforce declining relative to retirees without raising taxes or substantially cutting support to those retirees.
Will the large and growing number of older Americans be willing to sacrifice so that corporations and the top 5% can maintain their historically low tax rates???
Color me skeptical.
We are going to have to raise taxes.
4 Likes
Yep, that too we will probably have to do. Still won’t make enough of a dent in the $1.8T deficit (that was just one year, 2024!)
But this is wrong, you have to show your arithmetic. If it really is $4.3T over 10 years, then that is an average of $430B for each year. $430B out of $1.8T is less than a quarter!
Also, it’s important to keep in mind that the existing $36T or so of debt ALONE generates a whole bunch of deficit spending that is part of that $1.8T deficit (2024) because we keep refinancing all the interest and all the principal. So not only do we need to reduce the $1.8T (which is made up of overspending and of interest), but we also need to whittle down the $36T over some number of years. And to just halve that, could take tens or even 50+ years!
Just once, I’d love to see at least a little agreement that we are overspending massively. Just once. Look at the chart of government spending below. You can see that in previous decades (roughly till the 50s/60s), we reacted to “big emergencies” (WWI, WWII, etc) by spending a lot and then more or less dropping back to the previous level of spending after the emergency had ended. But in recent decades, every emergency, large (GFC, Covid, etc) or small (oil crisis, post-covid inflation, etc), we’ve tended to increase spending AND THEN KEEP IT high thereafter. I posit that that type of action is simply not sustainable. People like @Goofyhoofy disagree and think that government spending should “be as high as necessary” to accomplish everything government wants to do.
1 Like
How is it wrong? Is your crystal ball better than the CBOs? It is a forecast based on their data. There is no way to know if it is right or wrong as it is based on future tax collections.
Yes, it is less than a quarter but there is ZERO chance - ZERO, that will we cut even $430 billion from the annual budget. If we cut only discretionary spending, we would have to get rid of the entire budgets of most federal departments. Things like transportation, HHS, DOJ, etc. - all would have to be gutted or eliminated.
While the administration might be on board with that, Congress wont be.
We are overspending [massively]. We are also under taxing massively.
I will gladly make a deal the following deal with you:
Let’s the tax cuts expire and for every dollar in additional revenue we bring in, we cut spending 1:1. Fair?
4 Likes
Huh? You walk into a trap? Long?
A bear is walking through the woods one day. He sees a trap laid out in broad daylight. He decides what the hell? He puts his paw in the trap.
Do you need me to end the story?
We are overspending because we are undertaxing. Here is your graph on government spending:
Compare that to the growth of American over 65:
I realize correlation isn’t always causation. But a lot of times it is.
If I am right, then we have two choices. Raise taxes or cut benefits to the elderly and let more of them fend for themselves. I vote for first raising corporate and higher income tax rates to what they were in the 1990s and seeing what happens before letting old people freeze to death in the winter.
I would also suggest that we need to be tougher on the people who are costing safety nets so much money even if it offends our liberal sensitivities. We need to shift more of the cost of treating the illnesses caused by obesity to the people who live lifestyles that lead to obesity. This could be by raising health premiums for those overweight (as we do with smokers) or taxing the trump out of the stuff that causes obesity (soda, corn syrup, chips, etc, as we do with tobacco).
Also should increase the inconvenience of drug use by imposing mandatory testing and drug treatment if one wants to receive government funds. This means government salaries, grants, loans, contracts, as well as welfare. I’ll take an annual drug test to get social security benefits.
These will cost more initially but will have big savings over time by stemming the exploding cost of health care.
Not politically easy, but I think this is what needs to be done if one is serious about attacking the deficit in an era when the population is rapidly aging. What’s going on now is just window dressing.
9 Likes
I think everyone agrees on that they just don’t agree on what to cut. I would just like a little agreement that what they are doing with DOGE is wrong. Just because they can’t come to agreement doesn’t mean you can make a department up to get your way. I know it won’t hold but I would like everyone to agree it’s wrong.
Also, let’s agree that Trump, in his last term did nothing to stop spending. He increased the debt massively and it was Biden that brought it down. Not a lot but it was still lower.
6 Likes
That’s fine, and that’s fair, I’ll take the deal. But it’s still not nearly enough. Raise taxes by $430B a year, reduce spending by $430B a year, and you STILL HAVE nearly a $1T deficit, and you STILL HAVE $37T of debt generating interest quicker than our GDP growth can cover it, and you STILL HAVE Social Security/Medicare on their way to blowing ALL the future budgets.
Which year(s) did “Biden bring down the debt”? Here’s a chart of US Federal Debt from the Federal Reserve. Tell us which year(s) you are referring to in your statement.
2 Likes
Flat tax. Everyone gets the first 100,000 dollars for free then anything over that is taxed at 50% with no deductions. Since business’s are people that includes them until the debt is paid.
Okay. How much does that bring in total each year? I think I read that about 18% of people earn over $100k, so right off the bat 82% will pay nothing at all towards governing the country.
Including Business’s not just people. It’s a starting point and as with all starting points it will need to be fleshed out.
1 Like
One way to look at the debt is as a percentage of GDP. Biden did bring the debt down by this measure from pandemic levels. If you look at this chart showing debt/GDP by presidencies, there seems to be trend as to which party in power is causing the most debt problems.
Looks to me like the last few Democrat presidents have done a credible job with at least bringing the debt in line with economic growth.
Republicans, not so much.
7 Likes
To be fair…wasn’t that mostly due to COVID in 2020?
Mike
Here is what ChatGPT says
| Year | National Debt (in trillions) | Year-to-Year Increase (in trillions) | Percent Increase (%) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2003 | $6.76 | - | - |
| 2004 | $7.38 | $0.62 | 9.17 |
| 2005 | $7.91 | $0.53 | 7.18 |
| 2006 | $8.51 | $0.60 | 7.59 |
| 2007 | $9.01 | $0.50 | 5.88 |
| 2008 | $10.02 | $1.01 | 11.21 |
| 2009 | $11.91 | $1.89 | 18.86 |
| 2010 | $13.56 | $1.65 | 13.85 |
| 2011 | $14.79 | $1.23 | 9.07 |
| 2012 | $16.05 | $1.26 | 8.52 |
| 2013 | $16.74 | $0.69 | 4.30 |
| 2014 | $17.79 | $1.05 | 6.27 |
| 2015 | $18.15 | $0.36 | 2.02 |
| 2016 | $19.57 | $1.42 | 7.82 |
| 2017 | $20.24 | $0.67 | 3.42 |
| 2018 | $21.52 | $1.28 | 6.32 |
| 2019 | $22.72 | $1.20 | 5.58 |
| 2020 | $26.95 | $4.23 | 18.62 |
| 2021 | $28.43 | $1.48 | 5.49 |
| 2022 | $30.93 | $2.50 | 8.79 |
| 2023 | $34.00 | $3.07 | 9.93 |