Deciding on a new car...ugh

Investment Analysis Clubs Millionaire Fools
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I assume most of us here are similar in how we obsess on big ticket items. There are so many choices out there to consider that you can easily go in circles forever.

My 2003 Toyota Matrix has only 141K but I live in the rusty Northeast and as of late I’ve had to replace a few things and now seem to have a hard to find fuel leak. Not a massive leak but I dislike it when mechanics have to guess about things.

I’m a weirdo and love my CD/cassette option. I’ve come to terms with losing the tape option, but losing the CD option, too, seems a bit cruel. I’m sure I’ll learn how to use the USB port for thumb-drives but dislike losing the immediacy of the CD, slide in and play feature. I don’t care about leather or moonroofs, but I like safety features and music and great gas mileage.

Buying used at this point in time is very odd, as various friends in the area who bought new cars explained to me. Why buy a 2-year old KIA Soul with 20K on it when a brand new one is cheaper? So I’m guessing that buying new will be effective.

I’m open to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, KIA and Mazda thus far. Subarus and Nissans appear to have major issues with their CVT transmissions and Subs are said to have head gasket issues around 105k.

My budget could be whatever I want it to be, but since it’s a depreciating asset, I prefer to spend less. I have a mental block about going over 40K and even 30K makes me itchy. It looks like a Toyota Corolla Hybrid sedan can be done for a tad over $26K if I can find one. But KIA and Hyundai have some options in that space and lower with better/longer warranties.

I’d buy an all electric if I could get 270 miles before recharge. But it gets cold here in the wintertime and the idea of only getting 110 miles instead doesn’t excite me at all, which is why I’m considering hybrids. Maybe I should save more and buy a regular ICE but I see myself having this car for at least 10 if not 15+ years, so I feel like I should try to get something quieter and better for the environment.

If you see yourself in this rambling, please let me know how you solved your equation. Please either respond her or send me a PM off-board if you feel like this could be clogging up the board.

Thanks for any insight you can offer.

(Yes, I’m not a fan of Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Jeep. I owned those cars in my youth and I have an irrational hatred towards them for making such lemons.)

Cheers,

SD

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What do you use a car for? How many people need to fit in it? Stuff like that.

I have a 2009 Honda Fit. It works perfectly for what I do with it, albeit a bit underpowered. So far, it’s needed only routine maintenance; but at some point (soon), we’ll be looking for something to replace it. Unfortunately, Honda has stopped making them for import into the U.S.

The current Honda offerings don’t do much for me. The Mazdas, Kias, etc., that could otherwise work all have blindspot issues, and I hate that (even with all the “improvements” that compensate for limited visibility). So I’ve been looking at VW GTIs.

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My Tesla purchases are by far the best car purchases I’ve ever made.

To speak to your particular issues:

  • Teslas are the safest cars on the road.
  • Teslas are quieter and better for the environment.
  • My recent purchase of a Model Y provides 330 miles of EPA range.
  • To play a song all I have to do is say “Play ”.
  • “Play ” works too. So I don’t worry about CDs or cassettes.
  • And if I’m out of cellular signal range, I have plenty of music on my phone.
  • It’s the slowest depreciating asset of all vehicles, possibly appreciating.

Other things

  • Teslas keep getting better rather than worse over time due to software updates.
  • Teslas drive amazingly well on snow and ice.
  • In the cold, it’s wonderful to heat your car in advance, even if it’s in the garage.
  • Teslas are really, really fun to drive.
  • The sound system if very, very good.

If you put in an order today, you likely won’t get your car for months. Can’t help you on the price, as they are immensely desirable. Pay more. Get a better car. Pay much less for fuel and maintenance. And get much better resale value, so in the end it costs you much less than buying a crappier car.

And the best thing about the delivery being slow is that the cars keep getting better every day, so that eases the pain of waiting.

Best of luck.

-IGU-
(bought four Teslas, now own three)

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I’d buy an all electric if I could get 270 miles before recharge. But it gets cold here in the wintertime and the idea of only getting 110 miles instead doesn’t excite me at all, which is why I’m considering hybrids.

If you go hybrid, I’d look for a plug-in-hybrid - PHEV.
Then you can get 20-40 miles of electric range for your usual driving, but still be able to drive for 100s of miles using gas if you want.
I have a Pacifica Hybrid - able to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood/drywall/etc, 30 miles range on full charge, and since most of my trips are short errands (groceries, dr., school, store, etc) we only have to fill up when we do a vacation type trip.

My car does have the ability to play CDs (because of the blu-ray theatre system).
But we mostly use the USB thumb drive. If I was using physical CD, I’d be worried about my kids having worn out the Hamilton discs by now. :slight_smile:

Car & Driver has a web page which lists all ~30 PHEV available in the US. (Including ones that are definitely out of most people’s budgets)

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I have a mental block about going over 40K and even 30K makes me itchy.

That may be something you’re going to have to get over. Not saying drop $100k but your options increase with a higher price tag.

I’m a proponent of buying new, simply because you know what has been done/not done the car. A used car could have 20,000 miles on it but that teenager put 15k on drag racing and the oil was never changed.

As another stated, what do you do with your car and how many people ride. I will say one thing, once I switched to an SUV, I’ll never go back to a sedan. Much easier to get in and out plus can see in/over traffic better.

Drove a Honda Pilot for almost 200k before giving it to my niece. Now drive a Lincoln Navigator because needed the towing capacity and people room. Plus, it gets better mileage than my old Pilot.

JLC

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I have a 2020 Toyota Rav4 hybrid…

Very satisfied for what I got for the price…

40 mpg

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"Thanks for any insight you can offer.

(Yes, I’m not a fan of Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Jeep. I owned those cars in my youth and I have an irrational hatred towards them for making such lemons.)

Cheers,

SD "

The current Consumer’s Report mag is the auto issue. You might want to glance over their
ratings. The newest car we have is a 2018 Honda minivan - which we bought for reliability on
long trips and to carry luggage/ambulator/furniture/boxes. The auto has worked for us but cost
enough to cause you to need allergy meds possibly.

Howie52
We are trying to figure how to dispose of a 2001 Civic - and are considering donating the
thing to a local charity.

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I’m a proponent of buying new, simply because you know what has been done/not done the car. A used car could have 20,000 miles on it but that teenager put 15k on drag racing and the oil was never changed.

Possible, but not likely depending on what you’re buying. I like semi-upscale cars (Infiniti, Acura, Volvo) that are 3 years old and just coming off lease. They typically have what you would expect in mileage, but also decent service records since the service is under warranty that whole time. I wouldn’t buy one from out of state, but from the local dealer where the lease was issued, no problem.

And typically I can get the car for a little over 50% of original. Sometimes, depending on year, it doesn’t have every new whistle and bell but most of those don’t change a lot over a 3 year time frame

My favorite car, and which I still drive regularly, is my 1997 Infiniti J-30. (Yes, I got it 3 years later, like all of these:) I also have an Infiniti G-37 from 2011, and a Toyota Sienna Van circa 2005. Mrs, Goofy has had Hyundais and Acuras, but at the moment also has a 2011 Infiniti G-37. A hardtop/convertible, which she loves.

I’m waiting for the Pacifica plug-in hybrid van to come onto the used market to replace my Toyota, but I doubt there are many of those under lease. Maybe. I’d like one, but am too cheap to buy it new.

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I’m waiting for the Pacifica plug-in hybrid van to come onto the used market to replace my Toyota, but I doubt there are many of those under lease. Maybe. I’d like one, but am too cheap to buy it new.

Not a huge number of Pacifica Hybrids.
And the used market for them is very good right now.
You can buy a 2018 PacHy Limited for $41k, or a new 2022 PacHy Limited for effectively $46k ($53.5k - $7.5k fed tax credit)

Some dealers might charge more than the $53.5k list - but you can probably find one that won’t.

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I assume most of us here are similar in how we obsess on big ticket items. There are so many choices out there to consider that you can easily go in circles forever.

Good call asking here, even though there’s literally an entire board that’s half-dedicated (per the title) to this question. This group is, as you indicate, most likely to have a different perspective than the overall TMF community.

My add is specific to folks in this situation who have more than one car and who live within, say, 50 miles of where they drive somewhat frequently AND can’t charge an EV (B or PH) where they go. I bet this latter 2-part criterion applies to practically everyone outside of a few diehard long-distance-commuter folks and western farmer/wilderness types. Basic short version, outside those rare exceptions: if one lives in a 2 (or more)-car household, I have a very hard time seeing the wisdom of not having one (or all but one) of those cars be a BEV.

As I might have mentioned last time this came up, when I was in car-need-ville about six years ago I also looked at the 3 options of ICE/Hybrid/BEV. Because I’d only ever bought 10-15 year-old cars that cost a few grand until my 30s (when I bought 3-year-old cars in '06 and '09 for different purposes), I kept coming back to the maintenance and repair part. ICE vehicles are IMMENSELY more complicated and expensive to repair and maintain than the simple BEV ones. Sure, there’s a piper to pay every 8, 10, 12, or more years at battery-replacement time, but the one key thing that solidified my decision to go with a 2016 Leaf (leased new then bought out at the end of the lease) was when the sales guy mentioned off-hand “only fluid you ever need to worry about is the one that cleans your windshield.” No brake fluid, no power steering fluid, no transmission fluid, no oil, and no gasoline. ALL of those things need to be changed and/or eventually leak. In the 4.5 years I owned that car (the 120-mile range version, and back in Seattle there was basically no seasonal variation because there are only two seasons: the 46-week rainy season and the sunny period between July 5th and mid-August), I never needed a tow, and spent exactly zero dollars on maintenance and repairs done by others. I would have done the tire rotations myself but they were covered. Wiper blades once. That was literally it. In that sense, we saw the Hybrid (granted, traditional and not PHEV was the type on the table at the time) as the ‘worst of both worlds’ approach: higher purchase price AND still all the complexity/fluid headaches.

I sold that trusty and awesome Leaf back to the dealer with about 21k miles on it last year when I relocated to a small city (~50k peeps) in a flyover state and bought a 15-year-old 4WD pickup instead. Now I’m looking at how soon the Ford Maverick will be available in a BEV model, and absent that, possibly trading in our beat-to-heck ICE Rav4 5-speed on something that we don’t have to spend about $500 a month on (average) fixing the stuff that keeps breaking as it careens toward only 200k miles. Ranges aren’t 120 miles anymore, and I live 2.5 miles from where I work. We have two other ICE vehicles to manage the long distance between cities, and really only need one. It’s clearly in our best financial interest, and in the planet’s best interest, to choose the electric-drive model. For those considering Hybrid, I love the PHEV advice upthread, because most PHEV drivers using the car as it’s intended will only need to use dino-fuel a handful of times a year.

Finally, and this is a bit of a digression, in an even more ideal near-future world I’d drive a BEV small pickup and own NO gas vehicles–I’d just rent one when it’s time to go somewhere more than 150 miles from home (or less in winter, whatever). For the way I travel it’d be so much cheaper than owning, storing, insuring, and maintaining that car that it’s beyond silly. People pay a lot for the personalization and freedom that comes with ownership, and it shows up in some unexpected ways, like buying a house with a 3-car garage vs. a 2-car one, that I’m willing to account for. To each their own, and happy searching.

-n8

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the sales guy mentioned off-hand “only fluid you ever need to worry about is the one that cleans your windshield.” No brake fluid, no power steering fluid, no transmission fluid, no oil, and no gasoline. ALL of those things need to be changed and/or eventually leak.

No oil or power steering fluid, but it does have brake fluid.

I have a very hard time seeing the wisdom of not having one (or all but one) of those cars be a BEV.
I see a big part of it being up-front price.
I’m considering replacing a vehicle sometime in the next year or two.
But when I look the BEV have a higher up-front cost.
And maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe I don’t put much wear and tear on my vehicle, but I don’t spend even $2k/year on maintenance, so the whole “total cost of ownership” arguments aren’t very compelling to me.
Maybe I’ll find a used Leaf or something at a good price in a year or two though.

I’ve looked at the Rivian R1T truck - but I’m just not prepared to spend that much money on a vehicle.

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I love my Hyundai Santa Fe. Really love it, great warranty, great service from the dealer. No hassle buying process. I looked at Subarus, but Hyundai offered more for less $$. It’s really the first time I’ve deviated from Toyota products and I’m happy.

I think I paid $24k for a fairly bare bones model which actually has a zillion safety features that makes it feel luxurious to me after driving my 2010 scion for 11 years. I tend buy new and drive the wheels off cars.

I bought before prices skyrocketed. I thought I wanted electric, but the price difference wasn’t worth it to me, but I’m sure my next
Car will be electric.

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I have a very hard time seeing the wisdom of not having one (or all but one) of those cars be a BEV.

After a few months in this scenario, I have to wholeheartedly agree. The only non-EV vehicle we have right now is a minivan … and that’s only because there aren’t any EV minivans yet. It’ll need to be replaced sometime in the next 1-3 years, so I hope it’ll be replaced by an EV. Right now we have 2 EVs, both generic 4-door sedans, one purchased new and the second purchased used. One EV is used for commuting. We also have one minivan, used for transporting kids and sometimes for long trips, though for the last 2 long trips, when only 4 of us went, we took an EV, and other than the limited storage space, it was an absolute pleasure (including charging that was very easy).

… spend about $500 a month on (average) fixing the stuff that keeps breaking

If you’re spending $500 a month ON AVERAGE, it should have been replaced already! I don’t know the word for it, but it’s kind of the opposite of “marginal utility”, the PITA factor of having to bring it in, be without that vehicle, PAY for costly repairs repeatedly, etc. And then there’s the “expense creep”, let’s say you are willing to pay $500 a month to repair it because “no new car will cost $6000 a year” … but what if suddenly one month it needs a $1700 transmission job? Then you need 3 1/2 month of no repairs to meet that psychological number. And what if suddenly there are 2 months in a row of $1000+ repairs? That can easily happen with an older vehicle.

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I think I paid $24k for a fairly bare bones model which actually has a zillion safety features that makes it feel luxurious to me after driving my 2010 scion for 11 years.

For those buying cars with safety features that include cameras, I would highly recommend getting glass coverage with a low deductible. A friend bought a new Subaru Forester with lane assist, adaptive cruise control, etc. I was driving her car on a weekend trip together when a rock hit the windshield and cracked it all the way across in the viewing zone, so it needed to be replaced. $1450 later, the glass was replaced and the cameras were all recalibrated. Luckily, she had glass coverage with a $50 deductible. It happened again a few months later. Again, $1450 with only a $50 deductible. This was all pre-pandemic, so I suspect prices will have increased.

AJ

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I’d just take this response to DM, but I have to make the confession to the second part public because it’s a great call-out/lesson.

Right now we have 2 EVs, both generic 4-door sedans, one purchased new and the second purchased used. One EV is used for commuting. We also have one minivan, used for transporting kids and sometimes for long trips, though for the last 2 long trips, when only 4 of us went, we took an EV, and other than the limited storage space, it was an absolute pleasure (including charging that was very easy).

This sounds like where I’d like for us to be. We have the limitation that my highly conservative bride absolutely refuses to even be inside an EV unless it’s near life/death, much less actually operate one, but otherwise it’s us. Our ‘minivan’ is an '06 Sequoia that’s an absolute workhorse with minimal problems. Which two generic EV sedans did you choose, and how long (1-way) was that road trip you took the EV on? (feel free to respond directly if you figure we’re in the weeds on this answer)

If you’re spending $500 a month ON AVERAGE, it should have been replaced already! I don’t know the word for it, but it’s kind of the opposite of “marginal utility”, the PITA factor of having to bring it in, be without that vehicle, PAY for costly repairs repeatedly, etc. And then there’s the “expense creep”, let’s say you are willing to pay $500 a month to repair it because “no new car will cost $6000 a year” … but what if suddenly one month it needs a $1700 transmission job? Then you need 3 1/2 month of no repairs to meet that psychological number. And what if suddenly there are 2 months in a row of $1000+ repairs? That can easily happen with an older vehicle.

Nailed it. This is the ‘heck’ we’re stuck in with the '03 Rav4. As with many troublematic situations, we’re stuck in the mistake of repeatedly assuming the current situation is as bad as it’ll ever get. The relevant factors: (A) we love it for its AWD and dimensions–we can park it anywhere. (B) “drive the wheels off” sounds nice in principle but gets expensive in the car’s end times. (C) it’s a manual, so we want to keep it alive long enough for all of the kids to learn “the ways”. The oldest 3 did, the 4th declined, the 5th has very little interest but isn’t as headstrong as 4, and the youngest isn’t even 12 yet. Clearly this is something we should actively reconsider, but as with the whole EV thing, it’s not just up to me. I’d love to trade it in for a BEV with 200+ miles of range, because even with a monthly payment of as much as ~$400 for those 4+ years we’d be saving money AND having a better vehicle, and that’s even before considering the fuel savings that are kind of a big deal right now. Might have to have heartfelt discussion with Mrs. “wish we were back in horse and buggy times” about it. Again.

-n8 (she won last time)

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that’s only because there aren’t any EV minivans yet.
Yep - the Pacifica PHEV is as close as you get right now.

Personally, I think I prefer mine as a PHEV.
It’s effectively a BEV 95% of the time with all my short trips in the area.
And when I want to do the long trip to Disneyland/Legoland/whatever, it’s quick/easy to refuel on the way there/back.
If it were BEV I’d have to plan on a stop to charge for probably at least 30 minutes (400+ mile trip each way). Sure it’s only 1x-2x/year. So I could rent a car for those trips, but it’d be even more expense, and the BEVs are already costing a premium.

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I have three F250’s that I alternate between driving. In the newer diesel I have around a 630 mile range and I use it for going out with my GF and for long road trips . It is a King Ranch model so has lots off bells and whistle for comfort and safety. I can seat four full sized adults comfortably and still carry two or three canoes or other cargo in the bed if I wanted to.

My next older F250 is the one I use to pull my 22 ft trailer when I have something big or long to haul, like when I take my tractor to a friends to help with something or take it in for service or move furniture or buy hay, etc. I use it for longer errands, 100 plus miles etc like when I go into Houston for some reason.

My next older F250 is gas and even though it has over 250K miles on it it still runs good and I use for knocking around locally. It has its share of scratches and dings but those are just part of its character. It is like an old pair of jeans with a few tears and frays but well broke-in and comfortable. An if I get another ding, so what.

I admit it’s not the most efficient set up, but after all, this is a millionaires board and what’s the point of being a millionaire if you can’t just do what gives you joy.

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I admit it’s not the most efficient set up, but after all, this is a millionaires board and what’s the point of being a millionaire if you can’t just do what gives you joy.

Agree. People ask me why I have three cars but I can’t say that (“I’m a millionaire”), at least at the neighborhood parties. So I just say “I like them.”

Heck I have an old car (2011) a really old car (1997) and a beater van (2005). They all have their purpose, and I’m not going to pinch pennies at this stage.

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Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. You gave me lots to think about. I researched a few of your suggestions but generally I didn’t give you enough info to determine what would work best for my driving habits/uses.

I was most intrigued by Goofy’s used luxury vehicle strategy, but 2022 is not a good year to be looking for 50% off list on used vehicles of any stripe. Besides, I wanted mileage in the 30 zone for city and not 18. But you wouldn’t know that from my initial post.

I ended up going with the tried and true. Just as my Toyota Matrix was based on a Corolla engine, so I settled on a used 2019 Corolla LE with 22,500 miles. Off lease, one owner, a certified pre-owned. Saved only a few bucks but I got nearly all the safety tech plus my much desired CD player, USB port, aux in…

I barely drive more than 6K a year. I just need something to get me from point A to point B in comfort. I dislike leather and prefer cloth. I don’t need to bring contractor supplies around, but I sometimes bring a guitar and amp to a friend’s house, so the trunk is better than a hatch.

I could’ve spent much more, but why bother? It doesn’t improve my life as much as it might improve someone’s who loves cars.

And yes, I could’ve asked this question to the general car buying board, but I wanted to get the insight of the people I enjoy reading on this board. We share many of the same values in humility, investing, and money as time vs. those who see money as consumption. Not that one is better than the other, but it’s best to ask those who share your demeanor/outlook.

I figure by the time I’m done with this car, electric vehicles will be better established with charging networks much more prevalent in smaller towns, range anxiety will be a thing of the past and overall prices will be significantly lower than they are now.

Cheers,

SD

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You didn’t include the price you paid out the door…

Curious minds want to know… :slight_smile: