Thanks for the link Mark. Thank God I could find the page in the table of contents.
I will indicate the page & paste what Ford says and folks can come to their own conclusion.
Page 197 DC Charging Frequent use of DC charging could result in reducing your battery’s efficiency and lifespan. This is more pronounced on the standard range battery pack versus the extended range battery pack. See What is DC Charging (page 199).
page 199 WHAT IS AC CHARGING AC charging is the preferred method of charging. AC charging preserves the health of the high voltage battery for longer high voltage battery life. WHAT IS DC CHARGING DC charging allows you to charge the vehicle’s high voltage battery in significantly less time than the standard charge method. You can charge on the go before the battery has exhausted all of its power, or when traveling using the trip planner as part of your FordPass App. For the convenience of DC charging and time, there is a different fee structure depending on the charging station and network you choose. Note: Charge times vary depending on outside air temperature, power level, charger type, and location in which you are charging. Note: The system could reduce the DC charging rate to maximize the life of the battery.
No, that’s not how the real world works. You have to have some understanding, some knowledge, and some sense to come to conclusions. You can’t just come to your own conclusions without facts, and you have to use the correct language, with common understandings of concepts/words, to be able to properly converse about it.
DC charging is FAST CHARGING. This is never done at home (because home chargers don’t support DC charging). It is done at fast charging stations (Tesla superchargers, EVGo, etc) and used high voltage DC power to charge the batteries quickly. They go up to 350kW right now, and the most recent Tesla truck chargers go up to 1,000kW. DC charging is called Level 3 charging.
AC charging is “slow” charging. It includes 110-120V AC and 220-240V AC, and ranges from 110V at 12A (like a mobile charger that plugs into a standard wall socket) which is about 1.3kW, all the way up to 240V at 48A (like a Tesla wall charger) which is about 11.5 kW. Most AC charging is called Level 2 charging. All home chargers are AC chargers, and many chargers at destinations (supermarkets, movie theaters, hotels, etc) are AC chargers. All Level 2 chargers.
So, now that we all understand the terminology and roughly how EV charging works, we can see that Ford DOES NOT recommend using 120V charging. Ford DOES recommend using AC charging over DC charging when possible, as does every other EV maker … because DC charging (“fast” charging) stresses the battery more than AC charging (“slow” charging) does.
I always thought that the issue was charging rate and not AC vs DC. Note that (at least in a Tesla, maybe others) you can dial down the amps at all chargers, both AC and DC. The charging rate affects how quickly the battery temperature changes so I thought this was the factor that stresses the battery…but I could be wrong.
But here is a study done by Idaho National Laboratory (INL) that quantifies the battery loss due to DC fast charging. They tested 2012 Nissan Leafs in Phoenix…maybe the worse EV battery/system built due to no active cooling.
EFFECTS OF FREQUENT FAST CHARGING
An electric car’s ability to accept higher charge currents is affected by the battery chemistry. The accepted wisdom in the industry is that faster charging will increase the rate at which an EV’s battery capacity will decline. However, a study conducted by the Idaho National Laboratory (INL) concluded that while an electric car’s battery will deteriorate faster if it’s only power source is Level 3 charging (which is almost never the case) the difference isn’t particularly pronounced.
The INL tested two pairs of Nissan Leaf EVs from the 2012 model year that were driven and charged twice daily. Two were replenished from 240-volt “Level 2” chargers like those used in one’s garage, with the other two taken to Level 3 stations. They were each were driven on public reads in the Phoenix, Ariz. area over the course of a year. They were tested under the same conditions, with their climate control systems set at 72 degrees and the same set of drivers piloting all four cars. The vehicles’ battery capacity was tested at 10,000-mile intervals.
After all four test cars had been driven for 50,000 miles, the Level 2 cars had lost around 23 percent of their original battery capacity, while the Level 3 cars were down by around 27 percent. The 2012 Leaf had an average range of 73 miles, which means these numbers represent a difference of around just three miles on a charge.
It should be noted that much of the INL’s testing over the 12-month period was conducted in extremely hot Phoenix weather, which can inherently take its own toll on battery life, as would the deep charging and discharging necessary to keep the relatively short-range 2012 Leaf running.
The takeaway here is that while DC charging may have an effect on an electric car’s battery life, it should be minimal, especially in that it’s not a primary charging source.
It pretty much is. But none of the AC chargers reach a high enough charging rate to stress the battery. That’s for a few reasons, not least of which is that most of the places where AC chargers are installed don’t have the power capacity for fast charging. Homes, street light poles, hotels, etc don’t have the kind of power needed for fast charging.
I came to the conclusion that Ford has no opinion about charging your vehicle at higher than 120 volts as long as it isn’t DC. Does anyone have a different conclusion?
One conclusion I’ve come to, is that despite some infant mortality in the early years, EV batteries are much more resilient that anyone has planned for.
In the UK they are trying out expensive trash trucks.
The Greater Cambridge Shared Waste Service – a partnership between South Cambridgeshire district and Cambridge city councils – has rolled out its first electric refuse collection vehicle (RCV). The fully electric Dennis Eagle ‘eCollect’ costs around £400,000, which the partnership says is more than the approximate £185,000 cost of a diesel bin lorry.
My conclusion is that all battery charging is DC, never AC! We might plug our charger into a 120 or 240 AC skeet, or use solar, but in the end it is the DC that goes to the battery!
My little 12V Exide charger does a little trick on lead-acid batteries, occasionally reversing polarity to knock the bubbles off the plates, aiding in a better charge, but overall, it’s still a DC output… My Battery Tender plugs into 120vac, but just occasionally adds to the charge to keep the idle RV’s batteries on a safe float voltage, rather than mindlessly charging, boiling off the water. killing the battery…
I’m sure EV chargers would be capable of regulating how they charge the set… Or has that engineering gone down the drain?
For EVs, AC charging means that AC is connected to the vehicle, and the internal charger (part of the vehicle) converts the AC to DC to apply to the batteries. But always at relatively low power, that’s why it takes long to charge using AC. And for EVs, DC charging on the other hand means that the charger is OUTSIDE the vehicle and it charges the battery directly. All EV external chargers communicate with the vehicle to determine temperature/SOC/etc in order to determine exactly how much power to use at any given time. For example, if I start supercharging my Tesla at 20% SOC and have preconditioned the battery to be at the “best” temperature for charging, it will charge at 250kW for the first 3-6 minutes, then it will begin stepping down the power as necessary. By the time it hits 80% SOC, it is likely charging at 28kW or 24kW. Over 80% SOC, it slows down even more. That’s why they say the “sweet spot” for fast charging is 20% to 80%.
Awhile back on another thread about electricity costs, someone was paying about $0.58/kwh. So that would almost take away the cost savings except for the oil changes. Have read that EVs go through tires a lot faster and were more expensive. Faster wear related to heavier vehicle weight and more expense related to building a quieter ride because of lack of engine noise. So that may or may not offset the oil change cost.