EVs & Winter Range Reduction & Ford Lightening Utility Value

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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Hoovie has an half ownership in a Ford Lightening. At the beginning of cold weather in Kansas he has noticed that the actual range of the Ford is 1/2 of what it says on the screen. Hoovie partner is a liquor salesman and uses the Ford pickup to make sales calls. It was fine during warm weather but he has had range anxiety now. They have sold the pickup.

Two months ago he youtubed the poor towing experience with the Lightening.
Towing with my Ford Lightning EV Pickup was a TOTAL DISASTER! - YouTube

Eric Peter, who lives in SW Virginia, has a car blog and surprisingly somehow got a Lightening to test in December. I say surprisingly because he HATES EVs.
He had charging issues & range lost due to the weather & terrible towing experience.

A Tesla 3 owners drives in -7 degree Michigan weather.

His range was cut to 140 miles. But he was driving 75-79 mph. He determined that speed had a greater affect upon range than temperature.

I forgot in which video I viewed but the Ford manual recommends charging at 120 volt as higher voltage reduces the life of your battery pack. So charging convenience reduces the life of your EV.

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Hoovie owned an used Tesla Performance model that he liked but had a battery pack problem. His Tesla has only 50 miles of range now & the nearest Tesla sevice center was 3 hours away & Tesla would not send a mobile service truck to his house.
And auto EV & hybrid manufacturers/dealers don’t repair they just want to replace the entire battery pack. In Hoovie’s case $17000!
How he knew Rich Benoit who has 3 independent that will repair battery packs. In Hoovie’s case the repair ran $5,000. Start viewing the video at % minutes & 50 seconds to see the repair.

The above video is Hoovie explaining problem with his Tesla & also talks a little on the rapid depreciation of Teslas.

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1)It seems to me that the Ford Lightening is a failure in being able to replace an IC pickup truck.
I am thinking part of the problem with a pickup EV is vehicle weight. THe Ford Lightening is 6500 lbs vs a Tesla passenger vehicle 3500 to 4500 lbs. And battery power vs gasoline power is a losing proposition for a pickup truck currently.

vehicle weight sources:

How Much Does a Tesla Weigh? (Model S, 3, X & Y) – Weight of Stuff)

2)For commuting weather has an impact but an EV is still has good utility value.
For a long trip in cold country one had best have the route & charging stations stop very well planned out. For me that would to much of a PITA. But that’s just me. YMMV
A solution would be to rent an IC vehicle for a long trip but own the EV that performs for 95% tasks for which you need a vehicle.

3)With the cost of battery packs, for me it would only make sense to own an EV that has a warranty or perhaps an EV with a battery lease option if the cost was reasonable.
With the Toyota Prius many new battery refurbishing businesses have started up that prices much less than a dealer. I suppose the same will occur for Tesla & other EVs brands but we are not there yet.
4) EVs still have hurdles to overcome rapid charging time reduction & solving high voltage battery life reduction & repair of used EVs out of warranty battery pack cost.
Likely insurmountable but it will take time.

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The impact of cold on range varies by marque, but none are anything like 50%.

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Likely depends on the circumstances and how the vehicles are driven.
Perhaps your link has a better test as the EVs were driven at various speeds.
The Tesla 3 observation at the same website as yours report a 50% degradation but he was driving at 75-79 mph.
a case of YMMV?

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So, driving at those speeds he isn’t going to get rated mileage in the summer either.

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The first and most important thing to note is that Tyler Hoover, aka hoovie, is not a serious automotive tester. His videos are for entertainment, not education.

Specifically, he made a follow up video to his Ford Lightning towing video where he pulls the curtain back and explains exactly this (that he is an entertainer, not a tester or educator). He also admits that he was driving very fast (well over the speed limit for trailers in some states) which likely had a significant affect on his range. He also links to a much better review of electric trucks and their towing range.

Here you go:

I highly suspect that his winter driving in the Lightning was biased by the same goal - to entertain rather than to educate.

Lastly, it’s just a foible of mine, but the misuse of lightening and lightning annoys me more than it should. I can easily overlook a typo - we all make them. But your repeated use of lightening instead of lightning tells me you don’t know the difference. Lightening (with the “e”) is the process of making something lighter. Lightning is the large electric discharge in the sky. Lightening has 3 syllables. (light-en-ing) Lightning has 2 syllables (light-ning). Ford named their electric truck for the big spark in the sky, not for making it lighter.

—Peter

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Chet explains that his Ford F-150 Lightning has the Extended Range battery pack and about 300 miles of EPA-estimated range. He’s towing a boat to learn how much range it will lose. His educated guess is that the boat and trailer weigh about 4,500 pounds combined. For reference, the Lightning electric truck is rated to tow up to 10,000 pounds when properly equipped.

Chet was able to tow the boat about 150 miles, so you’ll have to do the math and figure out how far you’ll typically need to tow before you decide if an electric truck will suit you. If you don’t plan to use it for towing at all, or you just tow locally, this is likely a non-issue

MotorTrend had similar issues.

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Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to make any claims at all about the Ford Lightning towing capacity.

I am only pointing out that, in spite of the media hysterics, Hoovies Garage is a terrible reference source for good information.

I didn’t look at the Inside EV article, but any test that includes “educated guesses” about the trailer weight along with a jumping test is immediately suspect.

The Motor Trend article seems to be much better. At least it uses a decent methodology, although I’d question their use of a 70 MPH target speed. Speed and bad aerodynamics don’t mix well. If you have concerns about range (and who doesn’t while towing with an electric truck), the best thing you can do is slow down. On the other hand, it doesn’t really matter that much - if you want to tow long distances in a short time, an electric truck is simply the wrong vehicle. Frankly, if you want to travel long distances at high speeds in a short time, it doesn’t matter if you’re towing or not. For now, you need fossil fuels for that job, not electrons.

–Peter

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Recently did a road trip down to FLA for a little sunshine and beach therapy. I was cruising at 75mph on the interstate and there were plenty of pickups towing things and I wasn’t exactly blowing their doors off passing them. So they were probably doing 70 easy. Plus, there have been several times I’ve been towing a loaded trailer around 4000 pounds and 65-70 is usually how fast I go on the interstate.

So 70 mph seems reasonable or at least a test of ideal conditions.

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Apparently there is a problem with the Ford Lightning: Ford Lightning Towing Test Shows Serious Problems (msn.com)

This is MSN…doc

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The part that surprises me is that people of normal IQ need to do a test to find this out instead of simply reading the vehicle specs (maybe they are not of normal IQ?).

I always recommend people buy a vehicle that fits their application. If your application is to tow loads over long distances, the F150 Lightning is a poor choice. I don’t understand why you would have to run a test to understand a concept so simple.

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Throw on cold weather disadvantages, and the Lighning makes no sense at all for towing even a lightweight travel trailer… Local Blow n Go guys, deliveries, it would be fine, but I do not see any future use for towing… That said, it is a step forward, and it will be useful in some areas, other forms, like the mini-trucks fill, maybe a van version for local contractors, plumbers, a ready power source… Bigger, quiet versions for trash hauling…

Not ready for prime time!

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I think some of these people are just curious to know “how bad” the drop off is.

Right now I’ve seen numerous YouTube videos of EGO riding lawn mower. Considering getting one. EGO claims 4 acres mowing capacity with a 6 battery pack. Of course under ideal conditions. So people “test” it, taller grass, wetter grass, rolling hills, steep hills, etc. No one gets 4 acres mowed, duh. But, enough people have enough results that I would feel comfortable using one to cut my 2 acre yard.

Obvious the Ford Lightning is NOT a work truck. And the test show how far off it is.

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Again, depends on your application. If you are say, a local contractor it might be great. You can easily move heavy loads and run your tools without the need for onsite power. If you want to pull a travel trailer it is probably a bust.

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I don’t think this is true (it doesn’t make sense anyway, level 2 charging is not known to stress the battery inordinately, and it does up to 240V at 48A in some EVs). Here is a link to the Ford F-150 Lightning manual, what page does it say this?

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2022-Ford-F150-Lightning-Owners-Manual-version-1_om_EN-USA_03_2022.pdf

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Doesn’t it sort of depend on what your work is?
I see many of my local city maintenance trucks driving around that service neighborhood parks (since I live near one). They haul trash, bring tools for light maintenance, etc. They even tow the large lawn mower (8 ft wide) that mows the couple of acres of playing fields from park to park. I doubt they do even 40 or 50 miles per day.

Their miles are probably too low to make good use of a EV truck at current prices.

Mike

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40 miles a day is about 10,000 a year. 10,000 miles of diesel at $4.50 a gallon and 15 mi/gal, comes to $3,000/yr. 10,000 miles of electricity at $0.13/kWh and 500Wh/mi, comes to $650/yr. That’s $2,350 in savings each year. Now add 2 oil changes each year, and a “medium service” every 2 years, and a “large service” every 5 years, that’s another saving of about $300-500 a year average.

Might be worth it when prices of vehicles normalize. Right now with standard dealer ripoff additions, it’s probably not worth it. Unless, of course they are ripping off equally for F-150 ICE and F-150 EV.

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I should have said a max of 40 or 50 miles per day. Probably 5 or 10 miles on some days.
The park where they pickup the parked lawn mower to tow is ~1 mile from the park I live near so I can see how they may only drive 4 or 5 miles in a half a day’s work on some days. One park has ~8 soccer fields and the other 3 baseball fields a soccer field and a large play field. They tow, mow, edge, blow and go. Takes a 1/2 day once every week per park. Other days they probably have to drive at least 5-10 miles to more distant parks. Due to numerous walks at all times of the day during lockdowns I discovered how much time it takes them.
The big gas hog in all this is the big mower, most likely; and that probably doesn’t meet any significant emissions controls because it is probably classified as a different vehicle type.

More like $0.25 in this area.
It might make sense if Ford offered at 100 or 120 mile range battery option.

Mike

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Or the city could buy a VinFast (or other) EV and rent the battery with the lowest cost that covers their annual mileage.

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Do they make a pickup truck that can tow a 15’ low flat trailer with a large mower?

Mike

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I don’t know of a good option for an electrical municipal work truck at the moment. Most of the models seem targeted to the high end consumer and that’s not what you need for a city vehicle. But there are a lot of vehicles coming in out the next couple years that might fit the bill. Rivian R2 for example.

Speaking of which, I saw an Amazon Rivian out making deliveries today. That’s an excellent application for an EV.

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