FSLY and Updating Beliefs

Let’s look at what we thought before and after this week’s new information: https://investors.fastly.com/news/news-details/2020/Fastly-P…

Prior Belief: FSLY will grow at near 60% in Q3.
Update: Nope, they will grow 40% to 42% (maybe I’ll assume they’re planning to slightly exceed and hit 43%…but not more, because that would look bad and make the press release look misleading).

Prior Belief: TikTok could limit FSLY’s growth rate in the next few quarters, but surely management has prepared for this and baked it into guidance.
Update: The press release shows that management did not bake this in. I am disappointed in them.

Prior Belief: FSLY has fantastically happy customers as evinced by their 130%+ NER (Net expansion rate).
Update: The press release said “During the latter part of the third quarter, a few customers had lower usage than Fastly had estimated.” So maybe the NER has dropped. Uh oh.

Prior Belief: FSLY’s usage based model might be a double edged sword, creating huge growth when customers spend more, but making things volatile. It might even annoy customers to see their spend fluctuate so much.
Update: Unchanged…possibly somewhat confirmed by the reduced spend from some customers.

Prior Belief: The (in my opinion very good) acquisition of Signal Sciences will add customers, create opportunities, and juice growth, albeit inorganically.
Update: Unchanged. This is still a very positive development.

Prior Belief: The Google Partnership is interesting. Not exactly sure how much it will help them, but it’s nice Google is taking notice.
Update: None.

Prior Belief: FSLY has the best tech. Offringa and Muji and Smorg and others agree. Also FSLY appeals to the biggest companies in the world.
Update: None.

And lastly…

Belief: FSLY adds few customers per quarter, but that’s ok because it’s their go-to-market strategy. They go for the huge, mega customers. Not the mid-market.
Update: Wait a minute, Saul has a point. Why did we decide this was ok? NER can only get you so far. The same 20 giant customers may not be able to increase their spending 30%+ every year from here to eternity.

Conclusions

No one (I don’t think) is saying Fastly is trash and there is no hope for the company. In fact, most of us selling or trimming probably think they very well might have great success. We simply feel less confident, given the new information. As you can see above, not everything changed. It’s not black or white. But when the information changes, you have to change with it. Some of these belief updates are small. The opportunity is still there. But the changes are enough to make me take a “wait and see” approach rather than a “full speed ahead” or even “back up the truck” approach.

I suggest everyone eschew black and white thinking for a more nuanced approach, and ultimately decide for themselves how they want to proceed with FSLY. I think at least a reduced confidence is prudent, but that may simply mean not adding more. Or it may mean reducing. Or it may mean selling out as Saul did. We’re all different.

Bear

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No one (I don’t think) is saying Fastly is trash and there is no hope for the company. In fact, most of us selling or trimming probably think they very well might have great success. We simply feel less confident, given the new information. As you can see above, not everything changed. It’s not black or white. But when the information changes, you have to change with it. Some of these belief updates are small. The opportunity is still there. But the changes are enough to make me take a “wait and see” approach rather than a “full speed ahead” or even “back up the truck” approach.

Bear,

Let me say first that I think your point by point analysis is spot on, and furthermore I agree with your conclusions. I have one further thought.

FSLY reported first, that they had overestimated usage and second, that they added very few new enterprise customers and finally the CEO did not present a clear exposition of causes nor did he predict when growth would recur. This is what set off alarm bells for me. Here FSLY may have built the worlds best mousetrap designed from the ground up in every detail; in fact maybe the very best possible mousetrap, and it appears that much of the world is content with the mousetrap it has ( or which is otherwise available say from NET.}

There is of course the promise of Compute at Edge but that now seems like betting on hope.

So the competitive edge (no pun intended) has blurred. Maybe it has dissolved. Certainly this type of news will engender a pause and a reconsideration by many along with a major price drop (in progress) from which a lesser rate of growth is to be expected. I was not interested in seeing how large that drop would be nor in waiting 2 o3 quarters or more to see if FSLY resumes its prior growth rates.

Particularly since there are other fish in the sea.

good luck to all

cheers

arnie

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Bear, good perspective! Yes, the story has changed short term but not long term. I’m acting accordingly switching from growth mode, hold, to covered call mode until the situation reverses again. Or the fundamental story changes.

Denny Schlesinger

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There is of course the promise of Compute at Edge but that now seems like betting on hope.

So the competitive edge (no pun intended) has blurred. Maybe it has dissolved. Certainly this type of news will engender a pause and a reconsideration by many along with a major price drop (in progress) from which a lesser rate of growth is to be expected. I was not interested in seeing how large that drop would be nor in waiting 2 o3 quarters or more to see if FSLY resumes its prior growth rates.

I don’t see how you connect the dots, how you come to the conclusions “betting on hope” and “lesser rate of growth.” IoT will mean billions of devices and all IoT is edge almost by definition. The term “content delivery network” (CDN) was coined way back in time when the WWW was mostly a one way street, a few short requests and lots of content delivery. The modern WWW is much more interactive, a two way street with clients doing lots of the processing. If my view is correct then edge will put a strain on content delivery or updated better called content swapping network (CSN).

If I’m right then this moment is the trough of disillusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

Denny Schlesinger

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Bear:

Do you see the same potential problems with LLNW as we are now seeing with FSLY?

The biz model, usage spikes are the same.
Management may be a bit more mature.

TIA

If I’m right then this moment is the trough of disillusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

I fear 2 things based on the new facts and the new guidance as well as the lack of clarity…

1.We are not yet at the trough.

2.The slope of the growth curve will be less than hoped for.

arnie

1 Like

Cross posting what I posted over on the Mongoose Chronicles board:

Perhaps the most important lesson that I’ve learned in the “school of Saul” is to be brutally selective with one’s investment choices. If you think the money can be better allocated elsewhere, don’t hesitate.

I’ve been in love with FSLY since April. It grew to be a top 3 holding for me. However, after the guidance cut, I simply have more confidence in other names (CRWD, ROKU, and ETSY specifically; ZM and SE as well but they are already full positions).

I still see a very bright future for FSLY. But if I can eek out a few more % this year by throwing that money into other names, it’s very worth it in the long run.

I am in my early 30s and still in the “wealth accumulation” phase of my investment journey.

$100k over 20 years @ 16% CAGR = $1.95 million (not adjusted for inflation)
$100k over 20 years @ 18% CAGR = $2.74 million

That is a HUGE difference.

I am in no way saying I expect to beat the market by that much over the next 20 years. I’m simply illustrating how much a couple percentage points difference can make over the long haul.

Imagine a horse race. FSLY took a big stumble. It doesn’t mean FSLY can’t catch back up, but we are fortunate enough to live in a world where we can change our bet to another horse in the middle of the race.

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A different take on what @draj said…

With the best mouse trap(per SSI, Muji and others), they are faltering and unable to build momentum. So issue is not the product, it is execution.
Even if they have the best compute @ edge solution in ’21, they will still fumble.

Pricing issues, forecast revisions are all symptoms of an underlying issue with management esp. in sales. If sales function does not have ear to the ground on their largest account, you can imagine the kind of things that are gonna slip with rest of accounts - perhaps upsell opportunities(edge?), threats, etc.

This issue is not unique to FSLY. At different stages of growth you need different types of people and processes. Can be fixed but takes time.

If they clearly lay out what happened, a game plan going forward, and start to execute well I will invest again in FSLY.

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Bear, agree in principle. My conviction DEFINITELY got weaker in Fsly and I put it mentally in the same basket together with Tdoc and Docu (lower conviction stocks). I‘m currently not reducing or exiting 9% position in Fsly as I wanna see more details on 28th + tax implications + I don‘t see where shall I put the proceeds. Unless - like u - to keep cash. But I wanna see what they say on 28th with SS acquisition, compute@Edge etc. Finally, this is not Ayx type of situation when growth went to 10%+, at that time I sold out immediately.

Again, their earnings report could be possibly even more negative, but I‘m foolishly prepared to take that risk - at least as of today.

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I wanna see more details on 28th

So, are they reporting on the 28th or Nov 5? I’ve seen reports of both.

October 28th per:

https://investors.fastly.com/news/news-details/2020/Fastly-P…

Third Quarter 2020 Financial Results Date and Conference Call

Fastly will release third quarter 2020 financial results after market close on Wednesday, October 28, 2020. Fastly will issue a press release notifying once its quarterly shareholder letter has been posted on its Investor Relations website at https://investors.fastly.com.

Fastly will host a conference call to discuss its results at 2:00 p.m. PT / 5:00 p.m. ET on Wednesday, October 28, 2020. The call can be accessed by dialing (833) 968-2077 (U.S./Canada) or (236) 714-2139 (International) with conference ID 2491525. A live webcast of the call will be available at https://investors.fastly.com.

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Belief: FSLY adds few customers per quarter, but that’s ok because it’s their go-to-market strategy. They go for the huge, mega customers. Not the mid-market.
Update: Wait a minute, Saul has a point. Why did we decide this was ok? NER can only get you so far. The same 20 giant customers may not be able to increase their spending 30%+ every year from here to eternity.

Hi Bear,

Great post. I just wanted to offer my views on the Enterprise customers.

I think this is the point I’ve personally been struggling to get my head around. Because this has been my no.1 concern with Fastly since the get go. When I first saw the Q2 report I wrote:

“My concern would be a slowdown in signing up new Enterprise customers, Fastly’s core revenue stream, coupled with usage flat to current levels (as implied with their FY guidance) might not lead to the kind of growth rates that many of us are hoping for.” (https://discussion.fool.com/what-really-jumps-out-at-me-reading-…)

I remember when I wrote this, it was with a great deal of skepticism. Of the hype. It simply was not one of the highest growth or margin names here, and while its revenue spiked that was clearly driven by pandemic induced usage. But Fastly was one of the most hyped stocks on this board and on other platforms (on Twitter it recently won a poll of what stock will generate the best returns over the next ten years, of ALL growth names). Now I know hype is not a good indicator for how good an investment is, and if anything it may be a contrarian indicator. But there are a lot of great investors on these platforms, with a great deal more knowledge and experience than me. And I wanted to understand the hype.

How could a novice investor like me, looking at one of his first ever earnings releases, identify something that seemed glaringly obvious, but none of the investing community seemed to care. I MUST have been missing something. And so I also wanted to understand what I was missing.

We even had a thread at the time about why Enterprise customers didn’t matter off the back of my concerns (https://discussion.fool.com/fastly-enterprise-customer-confusion…), and while I thought of course they DO matter as they are half the equation of how I viewed revenue growth: (existing customers - churn) * DBNER + new customers, I was reassured somewhat.

Then new information increased my conviction levels regarding this concern, offering some explanation of how Fastly can grow its customers going forwards (I have posted about this before, so won’t go into detail except where there’s new insight):

  • Total customers increased a record amount in Q2 = Enterprise customer pipeline, there is likely to be a lead time to building their usage profile, I say this from experience of a usage based model. conviction +

  • Enterprise customer #'s impacted by churn in travel & hospitality verticals something to look out for

  • Signal Sciences acquisition, bringing +42 new Enterprise customers, and a more rounded proposition to go after new customers conviction +

  • Compute Edge roll-out, bolstering Fastly’s proposition to go after new customers conviction +

  • Google Cloud partnership, opening up new avenues to attain new customers conviction +

  • I considered Fastly’s go-to market business model, and how adaptable that might be, noting Sales and Marketing expense of 33% of revenue (up from 30% in Q1): “The increase was primarily driven by an increase in headcount and personnel- related costs to drive future enterprise customer acquisition growth, as well as to encourage further use of our platform by existing customers.”
    This shows that accelerating Enterprise customer growth is on management’s radar. Now compare this to Cloudfare’s S&M of 52% last quarter. I interpreted this to mean that Fastly is increasingly prioritising its Enterprise customer growth, and has room to invest in it when compared with Cloudfare’s model/margins. But what’s the result? Well, perhaps it’s reflected in their total customer numbers. I would also suggest that Fastly’s approach to building close relationships with its customers may lead to a slower sales cycle. You can’t suddenly increase your S&M and expect an uplift in quarter.

And so with the above points, I assuaged my concerns over Fastly’s Enterprise customers numbers, with a view of keeping an eye on them in future quarters. I would run for the hills if, as has been suggested, in the Q3 earnings call I got a sense that Fastly was losing customers to Cloudfare because of its usage based pricing.

Finally, with the knowledge of those great tech names that you’ve mentioned, whose expertise I also value a lot, my conviction in Fastly as a proposition and product only increased. And then taking into account all of the above, and that Edge Computing as a market is only $3.19bn today, expected to grow to $43.7bn by 2027, and that both Fastly and Cloudfare are by far and away the best primed propositions to grow into this market, I decided to take a longer term perspective.

I can relate to all your points, which are broken down very clearly and logically, and agree completely with your conclusions. My conviction has wavered somewhat with the lowered guidance, hence Fastly only being a 10% today while it was a 20% position on Monday (mostly from the 30% drop and a bit of reallocation into Zoom). The story has become a bit too complicated for my liking. And I respect everyone for the decisions they’ve taken based on this new information. Perhaps sometimes we can spend so long looking at the detail, it becomes hard to see the forest for the trees.

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Changing Expectations

I wasn’t going to post again about Fastly, as I feel like I’ve cluttered the board with posts the last couple of days, and have said everything I had to say.

But then I was just looking through the thread on Enterprise customer growth immediately after Q2 earnings that I referenced, to remind myself. And I came across a post I made, which feels very poignant now: https://discussion.fool.com/nb-this-model-is-predicated-on-fastl…

In it, I say: “I personally don’t expect to see Fastly gaining net Enterprise customers > 20’s until mid-late FY21, and I do not expect Fastly to blow-out earnings for the rest of this financial year. My view is long term and I plan to hold until there’s a change to the story (for me). There could be some short term pain, for long term gain. Although I hope to be proved wrong of course :)”

My previous post explains how my conviction grew in between Q2 and Q3 for the long term, but how did my expectations grow to the point that I was predicting raised Q3 guidance last week? https://discussion.fool.com/fastly-q3-guidance-review-34639561.a…

“All in all, while I think it’s safe to say that Fastly will beat its Q3 guidance, I see a bigger upside in raising its FY guidance and going into 2021”

The divergence in my own opinion, is because of how I interpreted the intangibles, the things which we don’t have clear information on. Namely, misjudging the TikTok impact/how much management had baked in, the accounting treatment of Signal Sciences and the over-estimation of usage. I feel that hype could have had some impact on these near term expectations, when I think about it. There wasn’t anything tangible driving my optimism of the usage in Q3 for example.

And so maybe, sometimes, we need to remind ourselves what our long term thesis is and not to let it get blurred by the intangibles, the bits we can’t see.

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While I agree with a lot of this there are a few points i’ve seen brought up several times in various threads as I catch up on things.

First I want to say my conviction hasn’t changed. However I am not putting on blinders and this next quarterly report will get triple the attention it might have.

1. Was a TikTok Loss Baked in?
I came away from the call thinking that it was not. Many felt it was. I just went back for a look:

The transcript: https://investors.fastly.com/files/doc_financials/2020/q2/2Q…
"…ByteDance, the operator of TikTok was our largest customer in the quarter. Any ban of the TikTok app by the U.S. would create uncertainty around our ability to support this customer. While we believe we are in a position to backfill the majority of this traffic in case they are no longer able to operate in the U.S., the loss of this customer’s traffic would have an impact on our business."

…then later…

Brad Reback
Stifel, Nicolaus & Co., Inc.

Great. And then Adriel, just following up on this line of thought. As you look at the back half guidance have you assumed status quo with TikTok or have you made any changes in the assumptions? Thanks.

Adriel G. Lares
Chief Financial Officer, Fastly, Inc.

Hey Brad. Yes, nothing at this time. I mean, we’re sort of assuming a little bit of status quo at this moment and again, as Josh has sort of mentioned, as you get to sort of the latter half of the year also will give us a lot more time to react. So that’s sort of built into that.

They did NOT say they baked it in. They are alluding to a previous comment where they said they think they can back-fill the loss of traffic later in the year since there is more time to find new traffic to fill a potential gap. In other words, they did not account for a short-term loss of traffic from TikToc. Again I thought this was clear when I heard it, but looking back at the transcript it does seem a little hard to weed through. I don’t love the way this is said as it isn’t clear what he means to me: “So, we have looked at this risk. We obviously wanted to make sure everyone heard about it. As I stated in the prepared remarks, we are very confident because of our strategy on how we’ve looked at this side of traffic that there is a meaningful amount of traffic that we could pull on to the network and in case something didn’t move in the right direction at short notice. But that’s not what we’re seeing today.”

2. Usage and DBNER
"Prior Belief: FSLY has fantastically happy customers as evinced by their 130%+ NER (Net expansion rate).
Update: The press release said “During the latter part of the third quarter, a few customers had lower usage than Fastly had estimated.” So maybe the NER has dropped. Uh oh."

Less spend is probably not a choice when it is traffic-usage-based. It is just less traffic, like the AirBnB example. I don’t think of end-user-usage-based expansion in the same light as a company choosing to use more products or more of a product. The former is based on the comodization of user behavior while the second is a business choice and measure of how much customers value the product(s) or service(s). In other words, reduced traffic-usage does NOT mean they don’t like Fastly.

3. Enterprise Customers Grew Less Than 2/Month

I don’t think this is accurate. Going back to the transcript:
“We grew our total customer count to 1,951 from 1,837 in the previous quarter, the largest quarterly increase since going public. Our enterprise customer count grew to 304, up from 297 last quarter. We are pleased with the number of new enterprise customers as well as customers who grew into the enterprise category. However, this strong growth was offset by some customers falling out of the category in COVID impacted industries.”

In other words, the growth in this segment looks low because there was churn. They didn’t lose customers they just had to reclassify them as they dropped below the threshold. I wish they would have provided more detail here, or didn’t report it this way. It is confusing. I don’t see any more discussion on this point in the transcript. We do not actually know how many new “enterprise” customers were added …only that total customers increased ~6%, which isn’t too exciting. However, we also know they are selective about the kind of customer they partner with (not sell to, but partner with), so I’m not sure what the most healthy way to think through this is.

This is the only other information we get about general customer growth. To me this is just talk about how early things are and how much room they have to grow.

From the Q&A later:
"Brad Zelnick
Analyst, Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC

It’s nice to see the record customer adds in the quarter. What can you tell us about the size and wallet of the customers you’re adding today? And as well, how would you characterize what you’re seeing in the funnel in terms of propensity to spend?

Joshua Bixby
Chief Executive Officer & Director, Fastly, Inc.

Yes. So, I mean, I think you know, Brad, pretty well our strategy on the SMB market, which is to go to market with our partners. I think in the last few months we’ve really seen the strength and the wisdom of that approach, where instead of going and figuring out how we can monetize tens, hundreds, millions of individual domains by building a sales machine that does that. We have gone to the largest aggregators and the most sophisticated aggregators, the Shopifys and the Wixs and the Adobes and others. That’s a strong play for us and it’s something that we want to continue to do.
So, if you look at the customers that we have in that category, of new customers, they tend to be obviously the larger enterprise customers who really will benefit from a direct relationship with us. Most of the smaller customers we would work with our partners on, which we have done historically.

So, you’re talking about large wallet sizes. I mean, to put our 300 enterprise customers into perspective, some of our largest competitors in the space have 6,000, 7,000 of these. So this is—we are in the early days of this market from our perspective and I think that only—that universe of 6,000 to 7,000 enterprise customers is very much limited by the lack of programmability and innovation in the traditional sector.

So, if you sort of cast your eyes wider to some of these other companies that have 30,000 or 100,000 enterprise customers, that’s certainly where we’re looking at. So we are humbled about where we are at in the journey. It is early but we’re really stepping into it and seeing that acceleration and pretty excited about it right now."

This stuff is better:
“Our average enterprise customer spend increased to $716,000 from $642,000 in the previous quarter. Our existing customers are relying on us more and more as reflected in our increased net retention rate of 138%, up from 130% last quarter, and dollar based net expansion rate of 137%, up from 133% last quarter.”

These numbers are all better than NET aren’t they? (I own both but running out of time right now to look it up).

4. So How Much Really Changed?

Here is the actual press release for quick reference: https://investors.fastly.com/news/news-details/2020/Fastly-P…

This is not a very long press release. It really only says, “Fastly now expects third quarter 2020 total revenue of $70.0 to $71.0 million, compared to its previous guidance of $73.5 to $75.5 million.”

What is that…a ~5% correction? So call it a few percent for TikTok and a couple for some other customers. Is this really such a big deal? I feel like they told us this might happen. They like to be transparent or even over-communicate. I’m still processing things but if this board wasn’t flush with threads on Fastly I’m not sure I would have thought much of it. Maybe this is a mistake and a learning opportunity. I hope not.

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No offense to you Rafe, but it sounds like you’re trying to rationalize yourself into staying in an investment you got excited about/emotionally attached to. FSLY carries an extremely high multiple (even after the 30% drop) based on two main factors: what appeared to be accelerating growth, and the “story” factor of edge computing that was expected to drive even more accelerated growth.

The first factor has fallen apart (even back in Q2, less than 60% YoY growth WITH tailwinds when the alternatives were CRWD at 80%+ and DDOG at 68% AGAINST headwinds, the companies that benefited from covid tailwinds like ZM, ETSY, PTON etc were all well over 100%+ YOY growth), the second is only a story right now, nothing concrete with no timeline of when it will be converted to revenue. The stock has climbed 8x this year even after the drop (13x before!), so it’s not like the current performance isn’t already baked in. Just my 2 cents

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“No offense to you Rafe, but it sounds like you’re trying to rationalize yourself into staying in an investment you got excited about/emotionally attached to. …multiple…[other price related things]…”

I have to admit I DO take offense (which is very hard to make me do) because accusing me of rationalizing because I am “emotionally attached” is as good as dismissing my points and accusing me of spin. That is so far off base how could I not take offense? The second line in my post literally said I am not putting blinders on! You then go on to bring up points that made no appearance in my post. Not only did they not appear I wasn’t even thinking the thoughts. Price-performance related topics are not on-topic. I promise you I am not buying or selling based on where I think multiples might go. Even stuff that might be on topic, like revenue growth expectations…I don’t think I brought it up. Frankly your post reads as trollish since your replies don’t seem to be about what I wrote at all. Did you even read my post? Were you replying to someone else and used my name by accident? I realize you are new to the boards so I hope you take this as feedback. Please try and add to the conversation you reply to. Agree or counter, but be relevant.

P.S. THIS is what it looks like when I am emotionally attached to material when I post :wink:

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