My Doubts About GoPro...and AMBA Too

I harbor serious doubts about GoPro and so, in a case of guilt by association, I’m not bullish on AMBA at this time. In September, Barron’s published a bearish article on GoPro and I thought the arguments were rather compelling:

At least twice in the past nine months, GoPro shares have tumbled on Apple-related news. In January, the mere issuance of a camera-related patent to Apple sent GoPro shares down 12%.

Even seemingly positive news from Apple has been overlooked. At the company’s keynote address a few weeks ago, it added GoPro support to its Apple Watch, enabling the watch to serve as a viewfinder for GoPro cameras. But Apple also upgraded the camera in its iPhone to a 12-megapixel sensor capable of producing high-resolution 4K video. GoPro shares tumbled 10% on the news.

And it’s not just Apple that causes concern. Sony (SNE) makes image sensors for GoPro’s cameras, which puts GoPro in a vulnerable spot, considering that Sony sells its own wearable action cam. And earlier this month, Alcatel OneTouch, a unit of China-based TCL Communications, announced a new waterproof smartphone called the Go Play. Taking on GoPro directly, the news release boasts, “The Go Play is not only waterproof, it shoots pictures and videos underwater.”

From http://www.barrons.com/articles/gopro-investing-as-an-extrem…

Basically, analysts in the article expressed two primary concerns: commoditization and smartphone takeover of the market. Let’s examine these two threats in more detail:

1) Commoditization – That the product could soon become commoditized due to competing products from Sony and other manufacturers. I believe we’re seeing this happen as we speak. One of the telltale signs of when a product is becoming a commodity is the loss of pricing power. Well, since Barron’s has published that article, GoPro has slashed the price of the Hero4 Session by $100…twice! Once in late September:

http://seekingalpha.com/news/2799646-gopro-launches-200-hero…

And again yesterday:

http://seekingalpha.com/news/2966206-gopro-cuts-hero4-sessio…

I’ve also seen Thanksgiving sales promoted on Amazon of Sony’s action camera lines. Indeed, I’m beginning to think of GoPro like Tivo. When Tivo came out it was an amazing product that revolutionized the way America watched television. But its product was quickly commoditized by cable providers and Tivo never became the great investment I imagined it would be.

In the same way, GoPro revolutionized (albeit in a smaller fashion than Tivo) the way we photograph and take video of different activities in life. But I openly wonder if GoPro is not destined for a similar path to Tivo as a company and an investment because of commoditization.

2) Smartphone cannibalization – In the right case, one built to protect it in a rugged environment, it is definitely feasible that a smartphone could be well protected from most elements and all but the most extreme of sports.

I also think it is within the realm of possibility that if there was enough of a market for this niche, which there does seem to be, one of the cell phone hardware companies would even make a more rugged smartphone model for this very thing. I don’t think that’s an outlandish possibility in the least.

Before the days of smartphones, when cell phones were just used for texting and making actual phone calls, Nextel had a very popular line of rugged phones used by blue collar types. All of the employees at my place of work were issued one by my employer. I think there will be a line of smartphones one day fitting this style again.

Even if not, each new generation of Corning’s Gorilla Glass gets tougher and Corning recently released their Project Phire glass, which combines elements of scratch-resistant sapphire with the toughness of the latest Gorilla Glass generation. Or that other protective methods of making cellphones more durable are also being advertised, like Motorola’s new Shattershield technology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjw1KRNaK9k

Technology is changing fast and smartphones have thus far become the technological version of the Swiss Army knife, an amazing device capable of doing multiple tasks in one convenient package. I do not, in anyway, find it hard to imagine that a smartphone in the near future could assume this task as well while also being stronger and more durable than ever.

The fact that the Barron’s article mentioned a smartphone already being marketed to the action audience only hammers that point home more.

Because of my concerns with GoPro I cannot help but be skittish about AMBA too, though I recognize and acknowledge the growth prospects Neil mentioned upboard. Particularly, body cameras on police officers and drones.

But there are a host of thorny legal and regulatory issues for these growth avenues to hurdle before going too much further, IMHO, and I wonder if products like this can navigate these obstacles before becoming commoditized as well. In the meantime, I’m just not sure if these growth opportunities can overcome GoPro’s declining sales.

These are obviously just my thoughts and I could easily be wrong about everything expressed above. Indeed, the fact that both Saul and Neil and others I hold in high esteem on this board are so bullish on these stocks, almost ensures that I am missing something. Nevertheless, these are the thoughts I’ve had for the past few months for these companies.

  • Matt
22 Likes

These are obviously just my thoughts and I could easily be wrong about everything expressed above. Indeed, the fact that both Saul and Neil and others I hold in high esteem on this board are so bullish on these stocks, almost ensures that I am missing something. Nevertheless, these are the thoughts I’ve had for the past few months for these companies.

- Matt

I was a pretty strong believer in GPRO, but I’m now having my doubts as well. If they don’t have a strong holiday quarter, and it’s looking very well like they may not - I may have to reconsider my position on the company.

Fletch

3 Likes

I may have to reconsider my position on the company.
and what happens then?
I think it is interesting how we all react differently emotionally and behaviorally to situations where we have an attachment.

If I’ve noticed one thing about Saul it is his zero tolerance for clear signs of distress with no latitude to sustain a position such as this.

On the other hand others (and I have been guilty of this as well), consider reconsidering a position, write a strongly worded letter to investor relations, rely more and more on hope and less and less on immediate evidence based prospects.

Hope it pays off for you Fletch but I would much rather be in AMBA with the risks on this than in GoPro. If GoPro turns it around AMBA benefits, if GoPro doesn’t then AMBA stands a good chance of surviving but GoPro does not.

Ant

2 Likes

I think it is interesting how we all react differently emotionally and behaviorally to situations where we have an attachment.

If I’ve noticed one thing about Saul it is his zero tolerance for clear signs of distress with no latitude to sustain a position such as this.

On the other hand others (and I have been guilty of this as well), consider reconsidering a position, write a strongly worded letter to investor relations, rely more and more on hope and less and less on immediate evidence based prospects.

Hope it pays off for you Fletch but I would much rather be in AMBA with the risks on this than in GoPro. If GoPro turns it around AMBA benefits, if GoPro doesn’t then AMBA stands a good chance of surviving but GoPro does not.

Saul has a much, much quicker trigger than I do. Sounds like it’s worked well for him, but my style has worked quite well for me. To each their own. I’m in AMBA as well. I’ve actually held my AMBA quite a bit longer than my GPRO. I don’t really feel that great about AMBA either, but like I said, I have a pretty slow trigger when it comes to selling so I don’t see myself doing anything with that position in the near future either.

Fletch

11 Likes

These are obviously just my thoughts and I could easily be wrong about everything expressed above. Indeed, the fact that both Saul and Neil and others I hold in high esteem on this board are so bullish on these stocks, almost ensures that I am missing something. Nevertheless, these are the thoughts I’ve had for the past few months for these companies. - Matt

Matt, I’ve never held even a tiny position in GoPro (as far as I remember). I don’t think I’ve ever written a post about it. In my post about SWKS vs AMBA I’ve also expressed that I see a lot of concerns about AMBA, which is why my position in AMBA was so much smaller than my position in SWKS. So I’m not sure how you could feel that I am one of the people who “are so bullish on these stocks”.

Best

Saul

2 Likes

It is possible, in theory, to value AMBA in a world where GPRO does not exist.

This is just a thought exercise…

Here is what I learned reading this board:

  1. GPRO is 30% of AMBA sales. Roughly a third, to simplify the math.
  2. AMBA TTM adj EPS: $3.35
  3. P/E: 17.7
  4. 1 yr EPS growth: 114.7%
  5. 1YRPEG: 0.15

From (1) above, 70% of AMBA sales are not GPRO.

Let’s imagine that GPRO falls apart tomorrow. Vanish. Poof. Gone.

30% of AMBA sales go up in smoke.

Assumptions (up for debate):

(A) Let’s assume that AMBA sales/profit growth is evenly distributed across all segments, as opposed to being concentrated in the GPRO segment, then you can apply the 114% EPS growth rate to the remaining segments of AMBA business.

(B) Margins are evenly distributed across the board so a loss of 30% GPRO sales translates to 30% loss in earnings.

If you accept assumptions (A) and (B), then AMBA TTM EPS drops from $3.35 to $2.20, P/E jumps from 17.7 to 27, but EPS growth remains intact at 114%.

So we have a company that grows profits at 114% and has a P/E of 27.

The next quarter will be bad. If you bake the numbers in then the growth comes down to 58% while the P/E edges higher to 30.

Still, 58% profit growth and P/E of 30? I’ll take it.

(Next… What if not only GPRO vanishes but the whole sports action camera? Then you will have to eliminate AMBA sales to that Chinese company that competes with GPRO. I don’t have those sales numbers.)

18 Likes

Hi dovbgood, thanks for the post. Really interesting points.

(A) Let’s assume that AMBA sales/profit growth is evenly distributed across all segments, as opposed to being concentrated in the GPRO segment, then you can apply the 114% EPS growth rate to the remaining segments of AMBA business.
Still, 58% profit growth and P/E of 30? I’ll take it.

GoPro and with it AMBA are momentum stocks. You don’t want to be in them when the growth start declining substantially…
Even with your assumptions the growth is cut in about a half. Wall street doesn’t like it at all and I believe we will see/ have seen that in both stock price.

As Saul puts it:
There are a lot of good companies out there why do you have to be in one of these?

3 Likes

So I’m not sure how you could feel that I am one of the people who “are so bullish on these stocks”.

Saul, you’re absolutely right. Just a typo on my part. Sorry about that. That comment was supposed to only refer to AMBA and not GPRO. And I only meant that you and Neil were at least somewhat bullish on AMBA because of your positions in them. Sorry for any confusion.

  • Matt
1 Like

Margins are evenly distributed across the board so a loss of 30% GPRO sales translates to 30% loss in earnings. – dovbgood

We’re just talking theory here, so I’ll just give a theoretical response:

Your assumption is reasonable only if all costs are variable. But that is not true, it ignores the fact that most/all companies have fixed costs. Since that is so, dropping sales will soon reach a point where the company only breaks even or moves into loss territory.

That doesn’t turn your earnings growth to zero, it makes it negative along with the PE and PEG. If that’s your sole source of stock valuation, there is then no support for the stock price.

BLAMMO!

Stepping outside the theoretical for the moment, there is a point where AMBA would suffer as a corporation and as a stock if GoPro were to vanish…. or if they sourced their cameras to another company. Will Ambarella grow the non-GoPro portion of their business quickly enough to offset the current GoPro weakness AND lend support to a growing AMBA share price?

Ummmmm……

So far, there is hope for that.

But hope is a lousy basis for investment.

I still own AMBA but I have no plans to add. Not only is there the risk that AMBA won’t grow the rest of their business fast enough, it is clear that other companies are moving to enter the competitive space. Tough to say if it’s worth continuing to own but I’m willing to keep watching quarterly reports until it’s clear to me whether to buy or sell.

Rob

7 Likes

Just to provide a bit of balance to my mildly negative AMBA post upboard, here is a post I made over on the Rule Breaker AMBA board:


The link takes you to what I view as a terrible hype article for a “me too” police camera company. Please don’t even THINK that I’m recommending the camera company because I’m NOT! So why am I posting this?

http://venturecapitalnews.us/home/post/the-next-big-thing/64…

It’s this little nugget:

Force Pro’s top product; the LE10 which uses the same High Definition Chips made by industry leader Amabarella (AMBA), also used in GoPro (GPRO) products, is considered the gold standard of the industry, boasting WIFI, multi-resolution capture, built in microphone, and secure downloading capabilities. This product alone is viewed by many to be a game changer across the industry, with North America being only the beginning for market penetration.

It’s very nice when your customers climb on the bandwagon to laud your products!

Rob

2 Likes