OT non Newtonian Fluids

“Only dancing – and only dancing that requires split-second timing – has been demonstrated to reduce the risk of dementia.”

Not just dancing, by any means ( and dancing is fun, so I get what you’re saying about it ). Had my annual physical in December, and my doctor told me that she has a few patients besides me that are avid xc skiers , and work at it year round so that they have the physical conditioning to enjoy skiing. Doc say this subset of her patients test incredibly well for all of her measureables ( resting hr, bp, cholesterol, …). She also says there are studies that she believes in that show that xc skiing wards off dementia. She is in her early 40’s, and she says her and her husband have both taken up xc skiing, because of what she is seeing from her patients that participate in it. I just got done skiing for 2 1/2 hours, and there were skiers in their 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s ( maybe even a guy in his 80’s ) all over the trail system. Far outnumbered the young folks, although there were youngsters out there, and the very best skiers were probably in their 30’s. But who cares how good you are, it’s incredible total body exercise regardless of skill level ( actually think the less skilled are burning far more energy than people with good technique )

There is no fountain of youth, but regular exercise ( whatever flavor you like ) and regular mental exercise seem to slow down the assault of aging on the body and brain.


I was put wise on this phenom in the early days of teaching group exercise in the early aughts. The gym chain I taught for had a big commitment to instructor training and the group fitness director embraced that idea and then some She strongly encouraged new hires…especially inexperienced ones like me…to take every fitness class going. Especially the ones they didn’t think they’d like which, for me, were the dance based ones or heavily choreographed step. When I demurred a bit based on the notion that it took so much to follow the class that I didn’t get a “good workout”. She launched into how wrong I was and the benefits are totally different from gaining aerobic fitness or building muscle and whatever else it is that folk think the benefits are…and as you’ve highlighted cone from the challenges to the neural pathways that the quick and coordinated responses to a rapid fire Zumba class needs. The sort of “training” that keeps reaction time strong enough to respond in under 400 msecs or so that it takes to correct a loss of balance and thereby prevent a fall.

It’s a bit of a two way street also. Actually teaching a group exercise class places similar demands on the instructor…notwithstanding the class format and playlist is of ones choosing. Keeping 15-20 participants on cue when there are different levels of fitness, energy, willingness to participate (srsly!) egos and whatnot is a feedback you don’t come across often. Never imagined fight prevention would be on my job description!!!

It’s a bit like the Grandmother Effect, I imagine…wherby, not only does the grandchild gain from the interactions of grannies as caregiver, so does the oldster!


Here’s a bit more on the topic…

A couple of the older couples (older than me!) in our running club go to swing dance classes locally. Now THAT I really want to try…my miserable scrote of a husband is the Debbie Downer in a “Why would I want to do that?” sort of way. I regularly get reels coming up on my FB feed showing a sort of line dance/Lindy Hop combo with complicated choreography and ultra fast moves. That’d do great as a group ex class, I think. Oddly enough, since this convo opened up, bot a single one has crossed my radar screen for me to post an example.

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I did aerobic dance for many years. I did what you call “heavily choreographed step” (including turn, over-the-step, mambo, round -the-world, A, K, V and many other steps) for about 15 years in my 30s and 40s. At the top of my game, I used 1 riser (I’m short and 2 risers hurt my knees) and hand weights.

The class was filled with “regulars” who attended the class at least once or twice a week. We were so coordinated with each other – the sight was beautiful in the mirror-lined room.

Unfortunately, I’m much less fit now than I was then. It would take a lot of practice to regain my skill. I would also be afraid of tripping over the step.

Whenever a new student joins a dance or step class, I caution them to be patient. Don’t compare themselves to the practiced students. Expect to take weeks, perhaps months, to acquire the skill.

I was driving up to Selfridge ANG base for my Navy entrance physical, in very snowy pre-dawn gloom. My car’s wheels caught a rut in the snow and the car made several lurid 180 degree swings before I got things gathered up and pointed straight again. It was probably half an hour later the guys were taking my vitals. BP and heart rate were still significantly elevated over my normal resting readings. Driving is exercise! :wink:

Only dancing – and only dancing that requires split-second timing – has been demonstrated to reduce the risk of dementia.

This being Shiny-land, we need to know if those studies are sponsored by Arthur Murray, the same way studies about the benefits of alcohol, chocolate, and coffee, are sponsored by their producers.

Speaking of split second timing, try driving a manual transmission: coordination of both feet, and one arm, with sound inputs.


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Not because your BP and heart rate were elevated. That’s just a function of your sympathetic nervous system kicking in…the “Fight or Flight response” …not a manifestation of a challenging workout. Using that logic, you could rack up a high intensity interval session simply by paying someone to sneak up on you at random intervals and shout BOO! in your ear.

The driving analogy almost works… for the first couple of lessons when everything you try has you bunny hopping or stalling. After a few lessons like this, you get to recognise the assignment as you move through the unconscious incompetence stage towards the unconscious competence and driving becomes more automatic.

Luckily I got into physical therapy in my mid 50s. By lifting weights for years I had developed muscle knots. Sent by my PCP to a PT problem after problem needed work.

All of it worked. I was lucky. Some people are not very responsive. Others wont do the work outside of seeing the PT.

My last round the PT told me I would do knee exercises for my patella tendon. I asked if I would ever need a knee replacement? I was getting old enough that in my circles the older guys were always talking their knee replacements. The PT knew I would train on my own with his instructions, he said, “no you wont need a knee replacement”.

Now he is getting me into core exercises to take stress off my legs.

I see friends who have the beginnings of all sorts of problems. I have approached them at times individually on getting their aches and pains seen to but people are putting off seeing PTs. Stating things like it is not serious yet. The PT tells me come in right away and it wont be serious later.

Separately my dad has back bones disintegration. Mom has osteo back, neck…It is troubling.

A friend of mine is recommending K2 MK7. I am going on it. My sisters might. Mom might.

K2 is a vitamin. It can direct calcium from the blood into the bone. MK 7 is the most important variant of K2 towards this end.

Natto is the food that produces the most K2. A smaller list of other foods really produce very little K2. Natto is fermented soy.

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@sheila727, who saved my life with her excellent advice regarding my breast cancer, recommends Vitamin K-2. I tried two different brands but both times I developed muscle pain and had to stop. Just a heads-up that it might have side effects.

I eat a bowl of steamed kale every day. That has Vitamin K-1 which the body converts into K-2. Maybe the pills were an overdose for me.

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I donno. I was on 200 mcg about four years ago. No problems. I thought it did not matter and dropped it.

Now I am watching my parents bone problems. I am 23 and 24 years younger than mom and dad respectively. That is not a lot of years after age 60. Get into 70 and these things will easily be creeping in to the skeleton. My sisters more so.

My friend is recommending 100 mcg of K2 MK7. You need to know if you are getting MK7 for bone health. The K1 that becomes K2 might have nothing to do with MK7. If you were getting MK4 prior that might be an issue but I do not know. The vit K comes in a several different variants but really is hard to get in our diets.

You might research if kale produces MK 7. If not you are not doing anything. But kale is worthwhile for other things.

K2 has been hyped pretty heavily over the past 5 years…I fancy it’s rapidly becoming the new Vit D in that regard. That’s not evidence that it doesn’t work * As Advertised *, mind…but you’d better hope that’s the case. Calcium metabolism is regulated to maintain tight control over blood values and it’d be a sorry lookout for the body if it were possible to easily override such control in a way the ads for the stuff implies.

It’s commonly suggested by cholesterol denialists and statin phobics as a way to prevent “calcium buildup” in the cardiovascular system…or removing it if found. As if this was a Good Thing!!!

Although it’s true that the typical Western Diet isn’t laden with K2 (or most beneficial nutrients come to that) maybe it doesn’t need to be. It’s found in egg yolks, cheese etc and, as @WendyBG pointed out, green leafy vegetables are a source. You’ll read that it’s found in fermented foods …well, that’s what happens to kale and whatnot as it passes through the gut. Fermentation. Not to say you shouldn’t pop a pill if it gives you peace of mind …much like Vit D or a multivitamin (like me…just in case) but, if you’re making the efforts with your diet that you say, there’s a chance you’re getting VitK 2 already.


Not much. If you dig up a table of vit K2 by each food you mentioned the amounts are tiny. That the amounts are often not MK7 is another problem.

We have a very large amount of bone density problems as our population ages.

K2 should not be promised to do anything.

It does not stop calcium build up in the arteries. It simply facilitates calcium in the bloodstream getting into the bones.

Any positive help takes years.

If it works I wont know. It simply means I have less of a problem perhaps in my dotage. Most everyone else you or I meet might have more of a problem that is common.

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Hi Wendy. Vitamin K-2 is super important, and I’ll provide some information tomorrow.


Where does the calcium come from to maintain the levels in the bloodstream if this actually does happen to a meaningful degree and how does it override the feedback loop that maintains the normal, healthy tight control. That’d be my question if a friend recommended this.


You are more of a research into such things than I am. I do not know how any of that happens.

The jury is out on this as far as I am concerned. But if I can somewhat dodge this bullet I probably need to.

That’s how the marketers and hucksters get you (and me) See, once you hear about something like this, the toothpaste is out of the tube, the bell’s been rung etc. etc…and the effects can’t be totally reversed. “There must be something in it if it’s all over the internet” sort of thing…and it is (all over the internet)

As it happens, I think the marketing must be working. It’s become such a must-have item it’s now finding its way into regular multivitamin formulations. At least mine. Doesn’t mean I’ll actively avoid it but sometimes you do need to ask yourself what would happen if all these nostrums actually worked as advertised (at least if you have a rudimentary background in physiology)

As far as I have heard from a responsible source there would only be a slight reversal if someone was a bit lucky. There would be no results for the first year. Over the longer run there would be less damage by age.

You misunderstood…I meant reversal of the effects of a successful marketing campaign.

Not a phenom of just the 21C by the way. Don’t know if you’re familiar with Saki’s short stories. That’s the pen name of an Edwardian author H H Munro who wrote a whole slew of satirical short stories including one about this phenom. I think this link will give you the tale in full. Filboid Studge…a name to recall when any commestible is being promoted

I am not worried at all about bloggers selling it.

I do not read those blogs. Or at least three or four years ago when I was reading up on this the bloggers were not aggressive as you are stating.

Also my source is a friend looking into scientific papers. Which papers I do not know but he is suggesting the effects are mild. You are citing crazy promises. I buy mild. I also buy living with what is going to probably happen to my bones is not what I want.

I get it…totally. You want to believe and anything to the contrary might sound like crazy hype…or love for Big Pharma (that’s what’s been trotted out over the years that I’ve pointed out faulty reasoning with various nostrums that’ve come across my path). Remember, I did say that there’s probably (likely) no harm in taking it if it makes you feel better…and you don’t ignore the rational approaches to bone health.

What’ve been results of past bone density scans? I have my mammogram and DEXA scans scheduled for next month. Bone density in the past has always been nice and high so hopefully a redundant test (mind you, I thought that about my CAC scan) I’m going to use it primarily for calibration of my bio impedence scale at home…body comp as well as bone density. I know it weighs weight accurately but the rest, I’m not so sure. Or complacent.