OT: There goes Vit D out the window...again

https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-casts-more-doubt-high-21002…

Brigham and Woman’s Hospital, the largest testing pool to date some 26000 people studied.

Made no difference.

The only caveat being this did not include more severe osteo patients. There more study is needed into the different smaller groupings of patients.

This study other wise confirms years of other results Vit D makes no difference in the general population. The labs, the pills, the worries all for naught.

Recommended dose 600 to 800 IU.

Just remember I come from a medical family. I was toothing on the idea that studies come and go every year. The studies saying Vit D is necessary are wrong. That is common in medical studies. Does not matter the topic. Most studies are by people who believe and wont deal with what might be in an unbiased way. Take Doctor Oz…selling the believers in 600 berries per year.

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This study other wise confirms years of other results Vit D makes no difference in the general population. The labs, the pills, the worries all for naught.

Goodness! What’s next, selenium and eating a few Brazil nuts a day is ‘for naught’, too?

Pete

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That study is consistent with other studies I had read indicating that vitamin d supplementation, properly absorbed with the right foods, could be beneficial for those of us with low vitamin d. Something like 29 percent of the population, Mostly seniors.

I tried to suggest a while back that supplementation made sense for those of us who had been tested and shown to be deficient. Not for the entire population to randomly self medicate with it.

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iampop,

Reread the article. That is not what study or the doctors are saying.

Why is the crowd all in on Vit D?

The problem with Google search people get the results of what they wanted to hear in first place.

People assume what they want to read or hear is the truth. No often it is not. Google does not filter searches for the truth and only the truth.

I always regret letting trolls out of my proxy.

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Pbox

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The only caveat being this did not include more severe osteo patients

Or patients with vitamin D deficiency.

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Or patients with vitamin D deficiency.


I believe that is an assumption. There was stated a need for 600 to 800 iu in many cases.

We do not fully know if people with a deficiency were excluded. That was not stated as far as I could see. The sample other than severe osteo cases was rigorous.

We do not know if people with a deficiency were excluded…

We do if we read the abstract for the paper…which was referenced in the opening paragraph of the article.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2202106

Mentioned in both the methods and conclusion, and in the limitations section (small print)

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And back in the 18th century, there were still plenty of doubts in western civilization that consuming fruits and vegetables prevented scurvy. As I see it, Vitamin D3 supplementation is in a similar position today.

Maybe it’s OK to have a Vitamin D level under 30 ng/mL, and maybe it’s not OK. Is it really worth the risk? Is Vitamin D deficiency sacred?

My target Vitamin D level is 60 to 80 ng/mL, which is generally considered to be the upper part of the normal range. Yes, I have tested and adjusted my dosage over the past few years. I know how much Vitamin D3 supplementation I need to keep within my target range. Not everyone is created equal when it comes to Vitamin D3 absorption, and that’s why testing is so necessary.

Studies show that Vitamin D toxicity is surprisingly rare, and all recorded cases involve Vitamin D levels of 150 ng/mL or more. If you think my target of 60 to 80 ng/mL is too high, then go for 40 to 60 ng/mL (the middle part of the normal range) as a compromise.

Someday, the idea that 600 to 800 IUs of Vitamin D3 per day is enough for most people will sound a lot like the idea that scurvy is caused by foul water or foul air.

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And back in the 18th century, there were still plenty of doubts in western civilization that consuming fruits and vegetables prevented scurvy. As I see it, Vitamin D3 supplementation is in a similar position today.

I dunno. There have been a number of studies, like this huge meta-study, that shows Vitamin D supplementation doesn’t do much of anything regarding bone health:

**Our findings suggest that vitamin D supplementation does not prevent fractures or falls, or have clinically meaningful effects on bone mineral density. There were no differences between the effects of higher and lower doses of vitamin D.** There is little justification to use vitamin D supplements to maintain or improve musculoskeletal health. This conclusion should be reflected in clinical guidelines.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8….

Plenty more where that came from.

I think your Vitamin C analogy is a good one, but probably for different reasons than you. Humans need fresh fruits and vegetables as well as fresh meat which contains Vitamin C to prevent scurvy. The race to the South Pole was decided in part by the Norwegians who understood that, and the British (who should have known better) who didn’t. British sailors after all were called “limeys” after their daily dose of lime juice mixed in with their grog to prevent scurvy.

Humans have evolved over millions of years–and especially over the last 200,000 or so years when we began cooking our food–to obtain all of our nutritional requirements from food. No supplements necessary. So if we eat something reasonably close to what our ancestors’ ate and spend some reasonable amount of activity outdoors we should pretty much hit all our nutritional requirements. The cure for scurvy wasn’t Vitamin C supplements, it was to eat fresh fruits and vegetables.

Do some people need Vitamin D supplements? Sure! Some babies, some people in northern latitudes, some asthma patients, etc. But the science says most people who maintain a healthy lifestyle don’t need to.

So why all the hype? I recommend reading the whole article (soft paywall) but there are strong links to the medical testing industry, and incredibly the tanning salon industry.

Enthusiasm for vitamin D among medical experts has dimmed in recent years, as rigorous clinical trials have failed to confirm the benefits suggested by early, preliminary studies. A string of trials has found no evidence that vitamin D reduces the risk of cancer, heart disease or falls in the elderly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/business/vitamin-d-michae…

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Maybe it’s OK to have a Vit D level under 30 ng/mL, and maybe it’s not OK. Is it really worth the risk? Is Vit D deficiency sacred

Questions to address to your Straw Man, I think…since no one else has suggested such a thing. Certainly not the authors of the study under discussion . It was mentioned 3 times in the abstract alone that this demographic was not part of the study. Additionally the fact that Vitamin D deficiency is recognized as an entity (and has been for decades) and unequivocally linked with multiple pathologic states would suggest not.

Yes, I have tested and adjusted my dosage over the past few years

I think you’re being a touch economical with your facts here. It wasn’t too many months ago that you were asking for tips on how to get a blood droplet in order to do a mail-in Vit D test…so I’m not sure why you keep mentioning this. It doesn’t add any credibility to the argument that high dose vit D supplementation is beneficial outside of a measured deficiency.

Someday, the idea that 600 to 800 IUs of Vit D per day is enough for most people will sound a lot like the idea that scurvy is caused by foul air or foul water

Probably not. It’s far more likely that high dose supplementation outside of a true deficiency will be recognised as unnecessary as this study suggests.

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Enthusiasm for vitamin D among medical experts has dimmed in recent years…

Indeed. One medical writer I’ve mentioned many a time in this context is this guy…

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968682

This is a more recent take on the hype around vit D and even mentions this study. He’s been writing for years about the idea that correlation (between various disease states and low vit D levels) does not mean causation.

Not behind a paywall as far as I can tell but plenty of pop up ads.

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Careful with Vitamin D. It is poisonous at higher blood serum levels. Keep it below 80 please, or you’ll get a ticket.