OT we need to silently reflect for a moment

Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School

29 Likes

What a list, I don’t recall all of the incidents, I attempted to share it over on Facebook, but it exceeds their 8,000 character limit, so instead only shared it with a couple old friends, but if every incident had a number, I can’t imaging that total, that many dreams lost, that many futures lost, changed forever…

So sad…

4 Likes

Realistically, we need to add the movie theaters, block parties, workplaces, and road rage incidents that increasingly escalate to gun fights.

Meanwhile, The Canadian PM has introduced legislation to entirely freeze handguns: illegal to sell, illegal to buy, illegal to transfer. Apparently, if you have one, you can keep it, but the only way to legally get rid of it is a government compensated destruction program. The legislation also limits rifle magazines to 5 rounds.

Steve

7 Likes

Meanwhile, The Canadian PM has introduced legislation to entirely freeze handguns: illegal to sell, illegal to buy, illegal to transfer. Apparently, if you have one, you can keep it, but the only way to legally get rid of it is a government compensated destruction program. The legislation also limits rifle magazines to 5 rounds.

What happens when a gun owner dies? Does it go to the government compensated destruction program?

Meanwhile, The Canadian PM has introduced legislation to entirely freeze handguns: illegal to sell, illegal to buy, illegal to transfer. Apparently, if you have one, you can keep it, but the only way to legally get rid of it is a government compensated destruction program. The legislation also limits rifle magazines to 5 rounds.

Well, I doubt we’ll see anything even near our Canadian neighbors happen here, anywhere, unless the D’s had an overwhelming presence in the Senate… Or lots of support from whatever sensible R Senators are left… I’ve no need, have a few, mostly leftovers from family estates that nobody wanted to mess with… Friends, most have several t man to large collections, I used to have several co-workers that were licensed gun dealers until the paperwork, liability got too serious… But they bought guns at discounted prices passed the deals along to family, friends… Some have since passed on, no idea what became of their collections, likely passed down in the family… ShotGun News was not only in the break room, but on the bosses desk as he, too was a collector, hunter… Anyway, the events we’ve seen aren’t the collectors, it seems to be the warped newbies, a grudge, a few bricks short, etc… Much more complex than any simple legislation is going to solve… Bad guys, laws don’t matter, stuff just gets passed around, black market, whatever… I don’t see any improvements…

3 Likes

Meanwhile, The Canadian PM has introduced legislation to entirely freeze handguns: illegal to sell, illegal to buy, illegal to transfer. Apparently, if you have one, you can keep it, but the only way to legally get rid of it is a government compensated destruction program. The legislation also limits rifle magazines to 5 rounds.

Steve

Fat lot of good that will do!

Tim

Land border: Canada's border with the United States is the world's longest international border, at 8,890 km. This compares with the 6,846-km boundary between Russia and Kazakhstan and the 5,308-km frontier between Chile and Argentina.Jan 17, 2018

1 Like

Anyway, the events we’ve seen aren’t the collectors, it seems to be the warped newbies, a grudge, a few bricks short, etc… Much more complex than any simple legislation is going to solve… Bad guys, laws don’t matter, stuff just gets passed around, black market, whatever… I don’t see any improvements…

I agree with that. The fundamental problem is the lack of mental health services and the stigma of actually using them. Then it’s aggravated by the easy access to military grade weapons.

Psychologists are likely going to tell us that they’ll have to deny a firearm to one hundred “suspects” to catch that one crazed individual who’s going to act on a threat. The 2nd Amendment fundamentalists won’t tolerate that.

intercst

1 Like

The fundamental problem is the lack of mental health services and the stigma of actually using them.

That is what the water carriers for the gun lobby have been saying. The first, obvious, issue, is who is going to pay for them? Michigan closed most of it’s state mental hospitals and tossed the people on the street, so the “JCs” could have another tax cut. I don’t know about the economic situation of the kid in TX, but the Oxford HS shooter’s parents don’t look well-heeled. Having the government pay for it would be socialistical, which is “bad” by current USian ideology.

Getting past the issue of paying for it, how could broad mental health services be implemented? A lot of the people who need help will not seek it on their own, even if it was free.

How to discover people who need help, and get that help to them, even if they don’t want it? How about a Federal, universal, mandatory, mental health screening for “wrong thought”? And, once the thought police are established, who decides what is “right thought”, and what is “wrong thought”? We are in an environment where talking about the history of racism in Shinyland is against the law. Who would govern the thought police?

Remember the uproar over this proposal?

2004 Jun 19

(some guy) plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

(that guy) established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a “comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system.”

The president’s commission found that “despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed” and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for “consumers of all ages,” including preschool children. According to the commission, “Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders.” Schools, wrote the commission, are in a “key position” to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

The commission also recommended “Linkage [of screening] with treatment and supports” including “state-of-the-art treatments” using “specific medications for specific conditions.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC428510/

The Texas pilot program, implemented by the same guy, was heavily criticized for doing nothing but increasing the sales and profits of the makers of the drugs used.

Steve

1 Like

Every country has similar mental health problems.

Only the US has a mass murder problem.

21 Likes

Every country has similar mental health problems.

Only the US has a mass murder problem.

+++++++++++++

If the root problem is mental illness of some sort (and indeed it is) will curtailing guns solve or cure the underlying mental illness problem? If so how?

YR

1 Like

If the root problem is mental illness of some sort (and indeed it is) will curtailing guns solve or cure the underlying mental illness problem? If so how?

No. Individuals who suffer from underlying mental illness will continue to do so. The idea is that if access to guns is curtailed enough, then if/when such people engage in maladjusted and even violent behavior, they will be vastly less likely to kill large numbers of people. Obviously there are other ways of killing people, and there are ways that you can (in theory) kill large numbers of people without access to a semi-automatic weapon; however, mass homicides using weapons other than guns are so infrequent that we can conclude that they are not typically used as alternatives when firearms are unavailable.

Albaby

28 Likes

If the root problem is mental illness of some sort (and indeed it is) will curtailing guns solve or cure the underlying mental illness problem? If so how?

Again, who runs the thought police? Who decides what is “wrong thought”?

The Oxford HS shooter was obviously disturbed. Teachers that morning saw what the kid was scribbling in his notebook, and reported it. The kid’s parents were called into the school that day, shown what the kid was scribbling, and urged to take him home that moment. The parents refused to take him home, so he was sent back to class. A few hours later, he started shooting, killing four.

That was an easy case.

The shooters in Buffalo, El Paso, and Charleston, all had a clearly stated white supremacist agenda. Are you going to make white supremacist ideology illegal?

The guy who shot up a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado had an anti-abortion agenda. Are you going to make being pro-life illegal? In that case, the perp was written off as a head case to avoid addressing the question of pro-life people being mass murderers.

The guys who blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City had an anti-government agenda. Are you going to make being anti-government illegal?

There are large numbers of people, and powerful forces, promoting white supremacy, pro-life, and anti-government agendas in this country that make it impossible for the thought police to deem those ideologies “wrong thought”. I submit that it is impossible to tell when an otherwise rational person will tip from spouting a popular ideology, to shooting, because, to him, shooting the people that offend his ideology is a logical course of action.

Steve

5 Likes

That doesn’t necessarily follow. If you can’t get firearms, there are proven ways to kill people.

I didn’t say there weren’t other proven ways to kill people. In fact, I went out of my way to expressly say that there are other ways to kill people, and indeed other ways that can be used to kill multiple people in a short period of time.

However, it is exceptionally rare to have mass homicides committed without a firearm. While it is certainly possible to kill a lot of people in a short time period with a knife or a car or an explosive device, it happens very rarely. In countries that have severely restricted access to firearms, you don’t see people switching to alternative methods of committing mass homicide. You don’t people going and building bombs using plans off the internet with the same frequency that you see people in the U.S. deciding to shoot up a church or a school.

So while it’s certainly possible to commit mass murder with these other weapons, people very rarely do it - even in all the countries where you can’t easily get a firearm. Atrocities that are occur on a tragically regular basis here in the U.S. are all-but-absent in the rest of the developed world. Which is pretty good evidence that very restrictive limits on access to firearms can significantly reduce the frequency of mass murder.

Now then - you’re absolutely right that the basket of regulations that Democrats like to refer to as “common sense” gun laws (increased background checks, waiting periods, easily avoidable limits on a very small subset of semi-automatic weapons, removing guns from [mostly] men under domestic violence restraining orders) are not the types of regulations that would significantly reduce the frequency of mass murders. Those restrictions are designed/intended to reduce other types of gun deaths, and would have little impact on mass shootings. Significantly reducing mass shooting deaths would require much, much more stringent regulations.

Albaby

10 Likes

YR,

Our murder problem has next to nothing to do with mental illness. You are being totally lied to on that.

Murders in prison commit murder out of rage. Mostly people who kill are mentally healthy.

Mentally ill people are often scared of their own shadow and are far more likely to be victims.

I get people do not have access to good information on this and believe a murderer must be “crazy”. That is not mental illness. Mental illness are forms of depression, bi polar etc…only a few mentally ill patients are violent and usually locked up anyway pretty early in life. The system generally clearly knows and locks them up.

Sometimes a family will be killed by a parent or child if hearing voices in a psychotic state occurs. But that is most often different than shooting up a school.

The vast majority of killers are mentally healthy. The Robbi shooter was a very angry young man. He did not “snap”. He had been angry for a while from the sounds of it. He planned things out.

https://news.yahoo.com/california-americas-toughest-gun-laws…

The article is NYT on Yahoo for free.

California has much less of a gun problem. This explains why. The exception has been along with the rest of the country during Covid.

If the root problem is mental illness of some sort (and indeed it is) will curtailing guns solve or cure the underlying mental illness problem? If so how?

No, because the root problem is NOT mental illness. This is what the guy was getting to that seemed to go over your head. The radical right is scapegoating the mentally ill in a desperate attempt to cling to their guns.

29 Likes

bj,

My response was deleted by the admin. No cursing…etc…just this is not actually a ‘desperate’ move. It is something else that is far more offensive. I am not at all being offensive saying it.

But saying it is very divisive. So the truth has been deleted.

1 Like

“No, because the root problem is NOT mental illness.”

Of course, it is! No sane person shoots up a school of elementary kids.

What we have is a generation of ‘young folks’ totally desensitized to violence and killing by watching and playing 10,000 hours of violent video games where the main goal is killing and killing to reach the goal. they’ve probably killed 5000 aliens, opponent soldiers, tanks, planes, etc by the time they are 18. They have zero socialization skills and their life is on the internet.

Just take away their computer/smart phone and they go nuts. try taking a phone from a teenager or going out in the boonies with no cell service on a camping trip and see what happens.

The small percentage of ‘loners’ leads to a teeny weenie portion of kids who will decide to ‘shoot up a school’. Of course, they aren’t mentally sane at that point.

t.

5 Likes

What we have is a generation of ‘young folks’ totally desensitized to violence and killing by watching and playing 10,000 hours of violent video games where the main goal is killing and killing to reach the goal. they’ve probably killed 5000 aliens, opponent soldiers, tanks, planes, etc by the time they are 18. They have zero socialization skills and their life is on the internet.

I know, right?

The USA is the only country on earth that has a “generation of ‘young folks’” so influenced. Those young folks in European countries, in Canada or Australia or New Zealand, in Asian countries, etc. do not play violent video games or spend much time at all on their “devices” to impact their social skills. Yup, that must be it.

:wink:

Pete

21 Likes

The USA is the only country on earth that has a “generation of ‘young folks’” so influenced. Those young folks in European countries, in Canada or Australia or New Zealand, in Asian countries, etc. do not play violent video games or spend much time at all on their “devices” to impact their social skills. Yup, that must be it.

MataroPete, how dare you to use logic!

Shame on you.

That’s really hitting below the belt.

AW

2 Likes