Are the idiots in charge?
How is it that someone left a “safety door” OPEN at the Uvalde school?
Why were 19 law enforcement people waiting outside for almost an hour while all those little kids inside were frantically calling them for help – many being murdered by that madman in there with them!?
Are people taking “stupid” pills or what? It is sickening!
Vermonter
“Are the idiots in charge?”
Yes - in many cases. People are frequently trained in ways to make poor decisions. Hot
weather at the end of the school year tends to bring out the worst in students and teachers
and administrators. I do not know how lock-downs are communicated to teachers and staff in
Texas or why an administrator is not assigned to check each door when a lock down is “called
in”. If there is a police presence in the field you might expect that individual would be
assigned that responsibility. But people do make mistakes. They overlook assignments - forget
important activities - do not act as they should.
One assumes that schools still have regular fire drills. Are lock-down drills a plus for the school
staffing? Are tornado drills still done in the deep south and mid-west?
Are police response activities set in stone to a degree that the police management does not feel
they should review a school shooting situation 10 or 15 minutes into an incident? Are procedures
such that an action plane cannot be questioned in what may be a reasonable time frame?
Howie52
Lord knows if government employees are found questioning authority or plans, there very well can
be “heck to pay”. And if they act and things do not turn out ideally, the heck payments become
more severe. Do we want people in government positions to be able - and willing - to think and
act on their own initiative? Or do we just want things to go smoothly - reward when things go right
and send in the inquisition when things go wrong?
The teacher came outside after the truck crash through the door. And went back inside for her cell phone to call 911 (leaving the door open, unlocked).
The officer in charge made the wrong assumption that the perp was barricaded inside a room and all others in there were dead.
Where was the school resource officer? Why was he not on duty at the time?
In tragedies like this, every aspect gets examined and second guessed. Its the worst day for all involved including the officers involved.
At least in Buffalo, the security guard made his best effort and lost his life. He deserves much respect.
At Parkland, the officer on site waited outside for backup.
After Columbine, the standard is that police should not wait but should enter the building and confront the shooters immediately. Apparently at Uvalde they chose not to risk officer lives in so doing.
A little girl student in the classroom called 911 three times to beg the police to enter. She could hear them in the hallway. She also told 911 that there were still 8 or 9 people alive in the room with her.
If the police were afraid to enter the shooter’s room (not unreasonable), why didn’t they ask the police station to send a shield (e.g. a riot shield)? That would have taken about 5 minutes.
Wendy
Yes, apparently they are in charge a lot of places because we keep voting them in.
Sorry to make this political, but when elected officials suggests that the answer to school shootings is “to have only one door,” there is something seriously wrong. (Hello? What if there’s a fire, moron?)
I told my friend the other day that I think we’re starting to see the opposite of the Flynn Effect, where IQ is dropping rapidly. In the US, at least.
Yes, Edith - like we’re on “stupid pills”!
Vermonter
Howie:
Regardless of “procedures”, if kids are yelling for help, why the hell not ACT? Break down the door! Charge in there! Even unarmed parents were eager to do that!
Bah…
Vermonter
Yes, apparently they are in charge a lot of places because we keep voting them in.
Sorry to make this political, but when elected officials suggests that the answer to school shootings is “to have only one door,” there is something seriously wrong. (Hello? What if there’s a fire, moron
Guess some people know how fire doors work, always work on the way out but never in. Now that you have been educated on fire doors, what’s next?
and to boot with tall the AI and social media scanning for things that should be a problem it missed this!
Idiot insane person posted on Facebook during the incident, Abbott said. His first post was about 30 minutes before he went to the elementary school, writing on the social media page, “I’m going to shoot my grandmother,” the governor said. The second post said, “I shot my grandmother,” and the third, less than 15 minutes before Ramos arrived at the school, Abbott said, was, “I’m going to shoot an elementary school.”
Guess some people know how fire doors work, always work on the way out but never in.
Until someone blocks them open because they want to be able to go back for any number of reasons.
Guess some people know how fire doors work, always work on the way out but never in.
Until someone blocks them open because they want to be able to go back for any number of reason
You can block any door open or closed, so what are you getting at? Nothing is full proof except perhaps being able to read the minds of people.
canonian:
{{{Yes, apparently they are in charge a lot of places because we keep voting them in.
Sorry to make this political, but when elected officials suggests that the answer to school shootings is “to have only one door,” there is something seriously wrong. (Hello? What if there’s a fire, moron}}}
"Guess some people know how fire doors work, always work on the way out but never in. Now that you have been educated on fire doors, what’s next?"
Of course, unless it is propped open.
Regards, JAFO
Guess some people know how fire doors work, always work on the way out but never in. Now that you have been educated on fire doors, what’s next?
Guess some people know… that stopping an attacker from breaking IN to a building is completely different from controlling how rule-following people enter or leave the building. Fire doors do not stop anyone from breaking in – their purpose is solely to give the rule-following person an alternate method to leave the building in an emergency.
And as far as breaking in goes, I’m pretty sure 99.9% of our elementary schools have windows all around the building that would allow breaking in extremely easily. It’s pretty obvious that shooting through almost any window* would make it extremely easy to enter the school.
Or Mythbusters apparently showed that one could shoot through a door lock with a high-powered rifle
Shooting a lock with handguns will not break it, as seen in Big Trouble in Little China, but shooting it with shotgun slugs or a high-power rifle could.
https://mythresults.com/#guns-bullets
*The whole shut off the lights and drop down and hide drill many schools do actually came from people shooting in through the windows originally…
"Mr. Modzeleski said that “lockdown” tactics were developed in the late 1970’s in Southern California (possibly in the Los Angeles Unified School District). He said that a more accurate description of the tactic would be “secure in place.” Lockdown was developed in response to drive-by shootings and street level crime occurring outside of school buildings. "
https://www.alicetraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Ori…
Are they in charge everywhere? No. In some places? Yes.
I am doing my best to withhold my judgement until we have all the facts we can determine. At this point we only know a couple of things about the incident itself. But we know precious little about the first responses to the car crash or the first shots. Nor do we know much about the complete police response to the situation.
The only other thing we know is that the Texas DPS has become an unreliable source for information. They have changed their account of the event multiple times. I no longer trust anything they have to say about the details of the event. And they don’t seem to know the first thing about handling the press and flow of information in the immediate aftermath of an event like this. They have made themselves look like fools, and drawn the governor in with them.
It takes some time for the incident to be investigated and the facts to become known. Witnesses will always have differences in their accounts of the events. Investigators need to talk to multiple witnesses to get the full picture. That work still needs to be done.
Until then, I’m reserving my judgement.
–Peter
Exactly anything pretty much can break a window, boot, rock, golf club, tire iron and so on.
Until then, I’m reserving my judgement.
Exactly 100% agree on that post.
It is also easy to say what someone should do after many people examine all the facts, put together a timeline, tell us things that the people around did not know and so on.
Sometimes rushing in when you have a hostage situation can go badly and if more kids died because of that people would by crying foul as well as not rushing in.
"Howie:
Regardless of “procedures”, if kids are yelling for help, why the hell not ACT? Break down the door! Charge in there! Even unarmed parents were eager to do that!
Bah…
Vermonter "
If you want government employees to think for themselves, you have to accept that things will go
wrong at times. You will have the “George Floyd” situations - and yes you will have other mistakes
even worse.
Howie52
The simple fact is that we are all humans. We are not perfect. We have never been. We do have the
ability to forgive others and ourselves - but this takes a lot of time and a lot of thought.
The news and opinion cycles will not allow for a lot of time and darn near no thought.
People put their own political spins and goals in place of thought - which is much easier, quicker
and quite a recipe for failure.
Now that you have been educated on fire doors, what’s next?
Hey, man, so tell Ted Cruz, not me:
“I sat down at roundtables with the families from Santa Fe, we talked about what we need to do to harden schools, including not having unlocked back doors, including not having unlocked doors to classrooms, having one door that goes in and out of the school, having armed police officers at that one door.”
By the way, Newt Gingrich proposed “ “Every school in the country ought to have five or 10 people paid $500 a month or more extra — that would be a rational federal program to pay every teacher who’s willing to be trained and armed to protect the children — teachers and administrators.”
Approximate cost of this jeen-yus plan? $4 billion plus.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/27/newt-ging…
Until then, I’m reserving my judgement.
I’m reserving my judgment on the police response as well.
I am not, however, reserving my judgment of the politicians whose pockets are being lined by the NRA, politicians who refuse to even consider enacting some common sense gun control measures.
And I’m not anti-gun! I was raised around guns, I like to target shoot, I used to shoot trap and skeet. I, personally, have no objection to private ownership of some guns. I think they should be registered, I think some waiting periods are reasonable, and I don’t think anyone except soldiers need guns that can shoot 100+ rounds a minute.
We may still have school shootings (I support better mental health care as well), but it’s unlikely that 19 4th graders are going to be shot at one time if the shooter has to stop and reload.
They have made themselves look like fools, and drawn the governor in with them.
Minor quibble–Abbott was already a fool.