Poll - Mid Year Forecast - what does SPX finish at in 2023?

Your post has strong 2021 vibes.

I will reread your port updates and hope to learn.

Oh. Wait. You dont provide any. You just post about your prescient perfection in ltbh when markets are up.

I will check out your board then to learn more.

Oh. Thats right. Saul doesnt want you in his sandbox so you decided to play contrarian with me.

How dare i spout my own opinions on my own board! The sheer nerve of me sometimes…sheesh.

Enjoy your weekend and the rest of your anonymous internet life being always right.

I will continue to say TSLA at nearly a T mkt cap doesnt seem like a long term winner, imo.

As EVs proliferate, why wouldnt any large chain w a parking lot get into the game…like IKEA, Walmarts, and 7-Elevens.

Oh. Wait.

Yeah…but Tesla is only FSD game in town!
Oh. Wait.

Ok. But people will only buy EVs from Tesla!
Uh. Hmmm.

Some people talk.

Others are transparent and actually research instead of just snorting hopium and believing fomo and momo will last forever.

You do you.

Dreamer

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Dreamer you love to insult when someone doesn’t follow your path. That’s ok, I’m not going to argue with you. Throw all the zingers you want to, look for the worst you can find in me, that’s a bar I won’t go down to.
I think you’re a smart guy, I think you do your research and you come up with your conclusions. Others do the same, but might come up with different conclusions. I was wrong on TSLA for years for example. Happy to learn from my mistakes though. You’re right, I don’t look at numbers that closely, I look more at culture, creativity, disruption, originality. It’s how I run all my restaurants, hiring people that are hopefully better than me. So I’ll admit again, I care less about actual quarterly numbers, and more about what I see further down the road.
Back to TSLA. If I hadn’t bought a Rivian, and taken some road trips around the west, and seen first hand how bad the charging network is for other EVs, and how great it is for Tesla, I wouldn’t have been back in the stock. It also helped that TSLA stock was getting crushed because of all the media attention on Musk and Twitter. So I got in at a very good price. The numbers put yesterday I really don’t care that much about. My take has been that Musk lowered prices because he could, he could squeeze his competition, and at the same time sell a lot more cars. A land grab in a way. Smart move.
Tesla is my second largest holding and I have no reason to sell a single share. Hopefully this one will work out from here, but there’s a chance you are correct and it turns out to be a terrible investment going forward. Time will tell.

Have a great weekend Dreamer.

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Hi TMB - you joined my board years ago and then left. Now back under new name.

You were preachy then, too.

Dreamer

1 Like

People ask advise, I take part in the conversation. You do t like it, well maybe start a private group somewhere where you can only include whoever you want. Easy to do.

You did start this board, but it’s still a public board. If someone asks a question, or wants to discuss something interesting and it happens to be on this board, I may get involved.

So preachy? Read into what I post whatever you want. Not much I can do about that. Or hit ignore and you won’t have to see my posts. I’ll still read yours because I think some times you share very valid and useful information. Helps to get points of view from a wide spectrum, bulls, bears, all useful.

Again Dreamer, hope your weekend is going well.

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TMB has been put on ignore. I had an odd feeling about “citibeach” for a while.

Honestly, ever since the board changes to this current format, I just haven’t been paying quite as much attention and it coincided with the market drop all of 2022.

TMB went out of his way to be antagonistic in the past, hiding behind a veil of moral/virtue signaling, and he appears no different.

Others may enjoy his posts to their heart’s content.
Just know that I am ignoring the heck out of them.

as you were,
Dreamer

1 Like

Well I think that’s a good move on Dreamers part.

I’ve attempted to make amends with Dreamer over the years, to no avail. We had a rocky beginning, two hard headed dudes with different beliefs in the market. I’m an optimist, usually see the glass half full and stay invested. Dreamer I suppose didn’t like my approach and he can decide what he wants.

As far as this board, I’m not on here to antagonize and I only rediscovered it because some of the good folks I follow like I think John Wayne posted on this board. So I read his post along with others, saw some interesting discussion and thought I’d share as well.

I respect that this is a board that Dreamer started, but it is still a public board for public discourse, and as long as everyone is sharing for the goal of helping others in sharing, then I think it’s all good. I have no issue with anyone posting here, especially Dreamer. His problem with me is unfortunately for him, his problem, not mine.

As for investing, I have limit orders in on the smaller and newer stocks I’ve been adding to, wanting to build those positions up. My point of view, and of course I could be wrong, is that any correction, if we do get one, will be short lived, so I’m buying and adding on dips. Just sharing what I’m doing.

Lastly, in my little world of business, all my restaurants are booming, incredibly busy. Also our bottom lines are up net net between 2% and an incredible 10% in one location on margins over last years quarter. Why? We are gathering that info, but a main reason is 6 months ago we switched our POS systems to Toast. Using their advanced software for inventory, labor costs, payroll, payments, etc, we have been able to watch all costs on an hourly basis in real time, and this tool alone is helping our management teams hit it out of the park. So big bonuses coming to them this quarter.
Seeing first hand what these new cloud software companies can save a company like ours, I can only imagine the money being saved in all companies moving to the cloud. Makes me want to reinvest in Toast. ;).

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Last week I was checking out TOST, may do a slow ease into it.
Good to hear your restaurants are doing well.

Alert Stock Advisor!! Right up your alley.

JT :flamingo:

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A quick google search on TOST.

I am not sure if this is credible.

Johnny

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Seems to be reversed as quickly as they implemented it. Can’t believe they thought that was a good idea

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Ha!! That’s all I can say on the Free Side…

JT :flamingo:

DD just took a position in NYC with Open Table after working her way up in high end restaurants for the past 10 years or so. She’s incredibly happy with her new 9-5 M-F job! She loves the Open Table model and how their software can improve restaurant owner’s bottom lines and she has the restaurant side experience to help restaurant owners effectively use all features of the software.

DD was home recently and was explaining how restaurant owners can use Open Table features in marketing ti their past and potential customers in terms of organizing tasting events, etc. which can help bringing in more customers.

Software, when applied in the way to a business, can bring some fantastic results.

Best of luck with your businesses!!!

'38Packard

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The countdown has begun? Final 3 months and change…

Better get your final bets in!

Dreamer

86% of respondents expect 4500 or higher
66% expect 5000 or higher

SPX at 4227 at moment. Less than 3 months to go!

Dreamer

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Here is what I wrote last weekend on this topic…because it has possible implications for where the SP 500 ends the year…

JPM’s large quarterly options hedge

In order to better understand how markets might close out 2023, I am keeping track of the monster, quarterly options hedge that JP Morgan has placed.

The JPMorgan Hedged Equity Fund (JHEQX) has over $16B in assets that include a basket of SP 500 stocks as well as their options hedge. They place this hedge every quarter…end March, end June, end Sept and end Dec…with an eye to where they expect markets to trade and close the forward quarter. This hedge allows them to limit downside losses in their equity portfolio, while capturing upside gains if stocks rise. The hedge limits upside gains a bit, however it gives their high net worth clients more predictable returns over the long term. There are actually 3 JPM hedge funds that do this…the other two are smaller, satellite funds in the family.

The mechanics

Warning : This section includes more detail on how the options trade works. Skip past the next few paragraphs if it is not of interest to you.

The JPM collar trade, as it is generally referred to, involves an options collar. To enter the collar, the fund sells 3-5% out of the money (OTM) calls and buys 3-5% OTM put spreads (buy a 3-5% OTM put and sell a 20% OTM put). The premiums from the option sales are used to fund the cost of the option buys.

If the market goes higher than their call level (strike), they lose money on the hedge but their equity portfolio gains value.

If the market goes lower than their first put strike but stays higher than their second put strike, they gain value in their calls and puts which offsets losses in their equity holdings.

If markets go much lower i.e below their 20% OTM put strike, losses accelerate because both the hedge and the fund’s equities lose value.

As we approach the end of the quarter, they allow the existing collar trade to expire and they enter into a new collar to cover their stock exposure for the following three months. They often spread out these actions over the 1-2 weeks prior to quarter end to get better pricing and to disguise their intent.

Market impacts

This JPM hedge is massive…typically involving 40-50k options contracts, each contract representing 100 units of the SP 500 index (SPX ). You can use your brokerage website to see this trade in place…look at the open interest column in the options data tab for SPX .

40,000 options contracts of SPX = 4,000,000 shares of SPX = $1.71B…if my math is right.

So this hedge involves $1.71B in calls + $1.71B in puts + $1.71B in more puts.

The sheer size of the hedge position increases market volatility at the end of each quarter when the fund resets its strategy because the new calls and puts need to be, in turn, hedged by market makers that enable these trades. Market maker hedging results in buying and selling of units of SPX and their underlying equities.

Even during the quarter, JPM might be inclined to adjust their hedge position to reduce losses, resulting in more market movements.

Traders and large investors have been increasingly watching where JPM places their hedge because it gives them a trading range for the SP 500 within which they might be able to “safely” put money to work.

I find this information useful as:

  1. I map out my own portfolio plan for Q4 and 2024.
  2. I develop my hedging strategy either at the portfolio or at the individual stock level.

Hedge levels vs market performance

For March 2023 , JPM placed their hedge at 4,065 Call, 3,600 Put, 3,060 Put. The SP 500 closed at 4,109 that quarter.

In June 2023 , their hedge was at 4,320 Call, 3,885 Put, 3,280 Put. The index closed at 4,450 that month.

For Sept 2023 , their hedge was at 4,665 Call, 4,210 Put, 3,550 Put. The SP 500 closed at 4,288 last Friday.

And for Dec 2023 , JPM has placed their hedge at 4,515 Call, 4,055 Put, 3,420 Put. About 30k options in each of the three legs…so far.

Wall Street wants markets to wrap up the year at or close to 4,515 and they see maximum downside risk at 3,420.

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looks like the actual results were/have been pretty random. Twice it was over the range and once in the middle. Let me guess, if market crashes, instead of booms like it did in Q1-Q2 of 2023, it will fall on the lower end this time around.

The JPM stuff is overhyped and doesn’t really move the needle, imo.

Dreamer

Thanks for this and the explanation. Amazing that they put over 5 billion dollars into this for protection! Pigs get fat as the old adage goes…doc

edit: what is the SPX? I couldn’t find that symbol vs the SPY
edit: i found it, the ^SPX

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Thank you, a well written illuminating account of the amazingly weird thing JPM professionals do.

Glad I am mostly in oil/gas dirt and potential future constuction dirt. I understand them.

d fb

SPX finished the year at 4769 or thereabouts, correct?

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65% of folks expected 5000-6000.

They probably expect 10,000-11,000 by end of 2024.

Valuations, growth rates, and actual EPS be damned.

Dreamer

I chose 4000 but since this isn’t The Price is Right game show, i think people that chose 5000 beat me.

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