Pope Francis Comes Out Against Pets

Pope Francis criticizes people who choose to have pets instead of children
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-pets-children-crit…

Clearly Francis hasn’t looked at the arithmetic between the two.

intercst

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Clearly Francis hasn’t looked at the arithmetic between the two.

Sure he is. Pets don’t put money in the collection basket on Sundays. Kids are future contributors.

PSU

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Pope Francis criticizes people who choose to have pets instead of children
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-pets-children-crit…

Clearly Francis hasn’t looked at the arithmetic between the two.

Clearly the Pope has, but the Church’s arithmetic is different from the family’s. More little Catholics grow up to be big Catholics who put money in the offering basket. Smaller families mean fewer parishioners down the road, putting money in the basket to support the church and their charities.

IP

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More little Catholics grow up to be big Catholics who put money in the offering basket.

More OT, but if Francis is relying on that, he’s in for a rude awakening. Young people (I think under 29, IIRC) are the least religious generation since they started tracking that sort of thing. Kids are not following their parents into religion. Not that they are necessarily becoming atheist, though many are, but they aren’t into all the trappings of religion. Many are deistic, believing there is “something”, but nothing more.

Church attendance (in the US) is in sharp decline, last time I looked, and clergy organizations have actually held conferences to discuss ways to reverse that. Apparently they are very concerned (likely because they may have to get real jobs if that trend continues).

Francis needs to reinvent the Church, or it will go the way of the dodo bird. Just like Nokia reinvented itself from a company that made rubber boots to a cell phone manufacturer (and, for a while, the best in the world). Maybe they could sell heaven insurance? Nope…tried that (I believe it built the Sistene Chapel). Besides, if people don’t believe in heaven, no need for the insurance. Hmmm…tricky problem. Pretty much everything they have to offer requires some belief to be desirable. They may have to pivot into making funky cars with bullet-proof glass. Or they could do rubber boots…

1poorguy

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Young people (I think under 29, IIRC) are the least religious generation since they started tracking that sort of thing. Kids are not following their parents into religion. Not that they are necessarily becoming atheist, though many are, but they aren’t into all the trappings of religion. Many are deistic, believing there is “something”, but nothing more.

Heh, always knew I was before my time. The above could describe me exactly. I am religious, but not into Organized Religion which is the bastardization of man’s relationship to God for the money and power that it garners for the leaders of the church. I had way too much Catholicism shoved down my throat as a kid. My parents made the error of not telling me that independence was not to be applied to the church when they taught me to stand on my own two feet and think for myself. Oops.

We have two under 29 for whom the above also applies, but much of that is because I didn’t shove organized religion down their throats. So hey, I guess they are following their parents wrt religion!

IP

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But the parents still want their children married in the church and the grandchildren raised Catholic.

You wonder how often the church wins in this discussion.

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People are still having children though. If he had said, I’ll have to look at it again, married couples or couples should have children and not pets, that’s one thing, but to parse it down to people are not having children, that’s not true. They are having children still, just out of wedlock.

St. Francis of Assisi was a friend to all animals, great and small.

Popes and ministers also preach love for one another, they are against war and hatred and murder. That hasn’t stop criminals and ne’er do well’s from continuing their awfulness and some go to church….think of the Mob, both US, Chinese, Latino’s.

If we all do the right thing, we’ll be fine. :).

The Pope is doing his job, preaching what he sees as good for all. Not all Catholic’s follow these to the letter, how can anyone be so perfect?

Lucky Dog

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Well, if you look at what he actually said, he wasn’t necessarily encouraging “breeding” but also encouraging people to adopt and take care of children without parents, etc.

I’m pretty cynical about the Catholic Church (I’m Catholic), I’m a single, childless passionate pet mother, but I’m a big fan of Francis, and his remarks were taken out of context and sensationalized, imho. Shocking, I know, that in this day and age the media would take something and run with it….

It’s a homily. It’s religious and meant to be food for thought, how you might apply religious teachings to your own life. He’s specifically talking about Joseph, who adopted Jesus as his own, despite the social mores of the day (Mary, being pregnant while betrothed to Joseph, would have been seen as a dishonorable woman and Joseph could have legally dumped her, but he still married her and adopted Jesus. (No need to believe to story, but this is where Francis is coming from).

Francis is not bashing pet ownership, he’s encouraging us to be open to loving children, whether our own or adopted, to take the risk. As a single, childless woman, with pets, I do get his point, whether from a religious perspective, a societal perspective, or even a biological perspective.

Francis:

“We should not be afraid to choose the path of adoption, to take the “risk” of welcoming children. And today, with orphanhood, there is a certain selfishness. The other day, I spoke about the demographic winter there is nowadays, in which we see that people do not want to have children, or just one and no more. And many, many couples do not have children because they do not want to, or they have just one – but they have two dogs, two cats… Yes, dogs and cats take the place of children. Yes, it’s funny, I understand, but it is the reality.

And this denial of fatherhood or motherhood diminishes us, it takes away our humanity. And in this way civilization becomes aged and without humanity, because it loses the richness of fatherhood and motherhood. And our homeland suffers, as it does not have children, and, as it has been said somewhat humorously, “and now who will pay the taxes for my pension, if there are no children?”: with laughter, but it is the truth. Who will take care of me?

I ask of Saint Joseph the grace to awaken consciences and to think about this: about having children. Fatherhood and motherhood are the fullness of the life of a person. Think about this. It is true, there is the spiritual fatherhood of those who consecrated themselves to God, and spiritual motherhood; but those who live in the world and get married, think about having children, of giving life, which they will take from you for the future.

And also, if you cannot have children, think about adoption. It is a risk, yes: having a child is always a risk, either naturally or by adoption. But it is riskier not to have them. It is riskier to deny fatherhood, or to deny motherhood, be it real or spiritual. But denial, a man or woman who do not develop the sense of fatherhood or motherhood, they are lacking something, something fundamental, something important. Think about this, please.”

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…but also encouraging people to adopt and take care of children without parents, etc.

You got me there. I don’t pay any attention to the mutterings of the clergy. But, from what I know of Francis, the above doesn’t surprise me. And I can get behind that sentiment. There are lots of kids in search of parents.

As popes go, Francis seems to be one of the best. He seems to try to walk the talk. Apparently that is causing some consternation in the Vatican among those that be aghast that he says we should care about people. Apparently that is controversial in the Church.

1poorguy (knows a few people who have adopted kids…one fundy vangie that actually took older kids -not babies-; I have my problems with him, but I give him credit for following through on what he preaches)

But the parents still want their children married in the church and the grandchildren raised Catholic.

What’s your point? How often do you know adult “children” to do what their parents want? Heck, it used to be a scandal for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic. Pretty much a non-issue these days.

Mom wanted me to become a nun, and the tears she shed when she learned I would be marrying another, not Jesus, were not tears of joy. I guess our not being married by a priest or baptizing our kids, not raising them Catholic, was easier for her since she had already given up on my soul. Yes, it used to be the youngest was targeted for the church. Things change.

IP,
who does not have enough imagination to understand a denial so profound as to believe she would become a nun

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I’m a non catholic who married a Catholic 30 years ago. I didn’t convert, they just made my us promise to raise our kids Catholic.

My Catholic bff congratulated me at their confirmation “mission complete “ (about 8th grade) after which I left the decision up to them. One stayed Catholic the other was “meh”.

I was raised Baptist and married Catholic and attend neither due to the raging hypocrisy of both religions. I’m like Ghandi when he said “I like your Christ. I don’t care so much for your Christians, so unlike your Christ”

I tithe to the local food bank.

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What’s your point?

Respect for parents is still part of modern society. Most seek their approval if they can arrange it. Sometimes other choices are made.

That does favor the life style envisioned by the Pope.

Totally OT, but here’s a quick link to some data:

https://www.pewforum.org/2021/12/14/about-three-in-ten-u-s-a…

Catholicism is only slightly in decline. Probably not the place to discuss further. There are a few boards where we could have this conversation. Atheist Fools, and Theist/Atheist Dialogs come to mine.

Respect for parents is still part of modern society.

As should be respect from parents for children, and for adult children’s’ autonomy. Kids obeying you is an illusion. Better that you teach them how to think for themselves, to problem solve, and be there as a mentor rather than a dictator.

IP

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The modern way is coaching. That’s a lot less than dictator, although I’m sure there are exceptions to every aspect.

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As should be respect from parents for children, and for adult children’s’ autonomy. Kids obeying you is an illusion. Better that you teach them how to think for themselves, to problem solve, and be there as a mentor rather than a dictator.

While I get your point, I think underparenting is a bigger problem, in society today, than overparenting. Perhaps not among people who think about “Retirement Investing”, however.

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While I get your point, I think underparenting is a bigger problem, in society today, than overparenting. Perhaps not among people who think about “Retirement Investing”, however.

LOL. Daryll, I think we may have a definition problem again. It’s a lot easier to tell the kid exactly what to do, or ignore their behavior entirely, but is that parenting? What do they learn from it other than to get as far away from you as they can as quickly as possible. As hard as it is, you have to let kids fail if they insist on it. They learn from making choices and reaping the consequences of those choices. Always better to screw up under the age of 18 than over it.

And lets remember we are talking about ADULT OFFSPRING in this part of the thread, not minor children. At some point, a parent has to acknowledge that while they would like to hang on to the illusion of being in control, they legally have no control. This arose as a response to this: But the parents still want their children married in the church and the grandchildren raised Catholic.

You wonder how often the church wins in this discussion.

https://boards.fool.com/but-the-parents-still-want-their-chi…

So yes, at 20, I was not going to willingly go become a nun because Mom said to do so. I was not going to restrict my love life to only Catholics or get married by a priest who would have to give me life lessons in pre-cana classes so I could get married in the Catholic church. Lessons on marriage from someone who had never been married? Not logical. And I was not going to raise my kids Catholic just because my parents wanted me to do so. I wonder if the church EVER wins in this discussion.

Parents should indeed respect their children of any age, and children should respect their parents, but lets remember, children are not pets. It is reasonable that they have their own opinion and the responsibility of the parent to help them think out the consequences of those opinions or the actions they generate. And eventually, the parenting is done, and it is your job to just love your adult offspring and let them know that while you are available as a sounding board should they so desire, what they do is their decision.

IP