Ukraine War Talks to Begin in November

It seems some European nations realize debt laden Europe is running out of money to continue to support Ukraine. Russia has been damaged seriously militarily & economically & demographically. But Russian oil & natural gas keeps Russia in the game. And European Treasury go to Russia in buy that oil & natural gas. The US has turned its back on Ukraine in favor of its Iranian adventure.
The time seems ripe for a deal.

The narrative of why the West supposedly needs to keep backing Ukraine’s war effort has evolved over the course of the conflict, from upholding international norms to regaining territory to defending democracy to protecting Europe against an imperialist Russia.

But the time has come to stop creating narratives and start accepting the painful reality that Ukraine faces existential peril if the war continues. Each new narrative only provides more time for Ukraine’s crisis to become more acute. Ukraine is bleeding land, people, and money. Its ports, bridges, data centers, transportation, mining, agriculture, industry, and infrastructure are being annihilated. It can no longer defend itself from devastating attacks on the capital and elsewhere—so an end to Russian attacks must be negotiated.

A compromise peace, rather than the total defeat of Russia, is not a fair outcome. Nor would the details of such a settlement be fair; Ukraine would have to make more concessions than Russia. But the peace cannot be fair because the war was never fair: It wasn’t fair that the more powerful Russian army illegally invaded Ukraine, and it wasn’t fair that the West used Ukraine as a proxy to fight against Russia, rather than settling the war in its early weeks when the opportunity arose.

And although Ukraine would have to make the more painful concessions, Russia too would need to give way on some things.

Russia has made an important concession in dropping its objection to Ukraine joining the EU.

At last week’s Warsaw Security Forum, Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide avoided the usual binary of Ukraine’s victory or capitulation. He stressed that since the Europeans are now paying for the war, they should also lead the diplomacy to end it. Eide noted that a peace agreement could secure a democratic, independent Ukraine integrated into the EU with 80% of its original territory.

At last week’s Warsaw Security Forum, Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide avoided the usual binary of Ukraine’s victory or capitulation. He stressed that since the Europeans are now paying for the war, they should also lead the diplomacy to end it. Eide noted that a peace agreement could secure a democratic, independent Ukraine integrated into the EU with 80% of its original territory.

The European coalition behind Ukraine faces serious problems of its own. Many European states are facing a sovereign debt crisis as war costs mount. The EU has been unable to persuade Belgium to make use of Russia’s frozen assets to fund the war. All the while, the dirty reality is that, since the war began, Europe has spent more on Russian energy imports than on weapons for Ukraine.

At the same time, Ukraine’s campaign of intensified deep strikes on Russia – supported by the Europeans and greenlit by the Trump Administration in spring 2026 – has failed to pressure Putin into a ceasefire. Without U.S. intelligence and weapons supplies, Europe lacks the military leverage to continue this effort on its own. There is no viable European war plan, only reactive crisis management and ad hoc solutions about Ukraine, coupled with repeated hyping of Russia’s “hybrid war” threat.

Russia has responded positively to the proposals sent from Oslo. Ukraine, Russia, and the U.S. have agreed to a three-way summit in November, according to Zelensky. The key question now is whether other European governments will take the Oslo initiative seriously and agree on who can represent Europe in these talks.

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Defeatism! :-1:

The Captain

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Only European support is keeping Ukraine in the game. And that support is not 100%.
The West has fought Russia to nearly the last Ukrainian. Mission accomplished. Russia has severely been damaged.

This Anti-American propaganda. Ukraine has been objectively gaining land vs. Russia this year. There was never a binary choice of victory of capituation. That is a complete fabrication.

Putin has laid out his peace terms many times: He wants the portion of the Donbass he has not yet captured and he wants guarantees Ukraine will not be permitted to joint NATO. Giving Putin veto power of NATO membership is and should be completely unacceptable, and his offers have been rejected by the West immediately. Yesterday, the Telegraph reported that Russia is likely to demand that NATO return to its 1997 footprint, which mean removing NATO troops from Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, and North Macedonia. I’m pretty sure those countries would like a say in the matter.

In contrast, Ukraine has repeatedly said it is willing to compromise and would accept a cease fire immediately. That’s a bit different than what your Russian outlets claim. And your propaganda piece also missed something that we’ve talked about on this board: Russia is also running out of soldiers. They’ve burned through all the available volunteers and prisoners and are using harsher and harsher measures to fill the slots.

We should never agree to Russia’s terms. Any American president who gives Russia control over our security interests is a traitor. Full stop.

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I remember the first meeting between Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump. it was disgraceful, “You have no cards!”

GoogleAI:

The infamous “you have no cards” exchange took place on February 28, 2025, during a highly tense Oval Office meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.[1, 2]

The meeting, which devolved into an unprecedented public shouting match broadcasted live from the White House, featured a direct clash over how to handle the Russia-Ukraine war. [1, 2]

The Exchange

According to transcripts and reports from the event:

  • Donald Trump interrupted Zelenskyy, stating: “You’re not in a good position, you don’t have any cards in your hand right now. With us, you have cards.” He added, “You’ve done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. You’re not winning this.” [1, 2]
  • Volodymyr Zelenskyy responded defensively, stating: “We do not play cards.” [1]
  • Donald Trump fired back: “No, you are playing cards. You are playing with the lives of millions of people, you are playing with World War III.” [1]

The Captain

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A possible zinger to the deal would be to allow Russia to “keep” the eastern chunk of the Donbas of Ukraine, but with a provision for a province by province vote in 5 or 10 years to elect to rejoin Ukraine or stick with Russia.

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Would you take that deal with Putin?

Ukraine should continue hitting deep into Russia, specially Moscow and St. Petersburg to get people to topple Putin.

The Captain

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The amount of land gained or lost is small.
The battle is over the pounding of infrastructure. And Ukraine has limited air defense missiles.
And without the support of Europe Ukraine can’t sustain a defense. And there is a question as to whether the Europeans are in it for the long haul.

It’s only propaganda because you don’t like the articles.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/responsible-statecraft-bias-and-credibility/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-american-conservative/

The Norwegians & Finns are the ones approaching the Russians.

Asking Putin to stop is fine. The problem is abandoning Ukraine. Even Japan is now menacing Russia. I wonder how much longer Putin can stay in office.

Putin is the problem!

The Captain

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One has to wonder why we’re playing so nice with him.

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Because we want cheap oil, gas, and diesel. That gets votes!

The Captain

One word: kompromat.

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A new word! :+1:

compromising information collected for use in blackmailing, discrediting, or manipulating someone, typically for political purposes: the leak shows that kompromat need not reveal anything illegal to be damaging.

The Captain

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