La Nina and hurricane season

We are deep into a La Niña with a forecast for a deeper La Niña in the fall.

This bodes ill.

or

Hark! An ill wind blows!

In addition to a bad fire season and continued drought in California (By its self a fairly large economy) there is the CHANCE for a very busy hurricane season.

In addition to heat, hurricanes need three conditions to form and strengthen. These are:

Moist air, or the absence of dry air.

A lack of dust, normally from the Sahara.

And a lack of wind shear.

La Niña typically reduces wind shear. Early in the season and for a time in the middle of the season (I think, I could have this wrong) the Cape Verde storms tend to be suppressed, both by the dry air snd dust. However, with no wind shear home grown storms can spin up, the ones that form in the Bay of Campeche can be troublesome.

At this time the heat in the Atlantic is not that high so may not give rise to monster storms, even if dust and dry air abandons us. However, the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico
seem to have plenty of energy even when they are not exceptionally hot.

While forecasting this far out is very difficult and the most knowledgable people have track records about as good as a bunch of monkeys, the data indicates we have a significant chance of a busy hurricane season. If we
get a bunch if storms in the Gulf, even small weak storms, the oil flow from the Gulf can be disrupted.

So, in addition to brushing off your hurricane plans, and checking your go bag, you might try to run scenarios about what an economy with very high gas prices or with out right gas rationing would look like.

Cheers
Qazulight

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In addition to heat, hurricanes need three conditions to form and strengthen. These are:
Moist air, or the absence of dry air.
A lack of dust, normally from the Sahara.
And a lack of wind shear.

Reed et al. used four CMIP5 climate models to generate synthetic hurricane seasons for the years 850 to 2005. Contrary to other work they found “only a very weak relationship between power dissipation and main development region sea surface temperature in the Atlantic basin.”

(The power dissipation index is an aggregate of storm intensity, frequency, and duration and provides a measure of total hurricane power over a hurricane season.)

The group did find a good correlation between basin-wide activity and the number of storms that made landfall.

An analysis of long-term relationships among count statistics and metrics of synthetic tropical cyclones downscaled from CMIP5 models
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/201…

DB2

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NOAA still expects above-normal Atlantic hurricane season
www.noaa.gov/news-release/noaa-still-expects-above-normal-at…
NOAA forecasters have slightly decreased the likelihood of an above-normal Atlantic hurricane season to 60% (lowered from the outlook issued in May, which predicted a 65% chance). The likelihood of near-normal activity has risen to 30% and the chances remain at 10% for a below-normal season…

La Niña conditions, which are favored to remain in place for the rest of 2022 and could allow the ongoing high-activity era conditions to dominate, or slightly enhance hurricane activity. In addition to a continued La Niña, weaker tropical Atlantic trade winds, an active west African Monsoon and likely above-normal Atlantic sea-surface temperatures set the stage for an active hurricane season and are reflective of the ongoing high-activity era for Atlantic hurricanes.

DB2

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We are deep into a La Niña with a forecast for a deeper La Niña in the fall. This bodes ill…While forecasting this far out is very difficult and the most knowledgable people have track records about as good as a bunch of monkeys, the data indicates we have a significant chance of a busy hurricane season.

Calm before storms? Oddly quiet Atlantic despite forecasts
https://discussion.fool.com/Post.aspx?mid=35106340&reply=tru…
A record-tying inactive August is drawing to a close and no storms have formed, even though it is peak hurricane season and all experts’ pre-season forecasts warned of an above normal season. Nearly all the factors that meteorologists look for in a busy season are there. Warm ocean water for fuel? Check. Not a lot of wind shear that decapitates storms? Check. La Nina, the natural cooling of the central Pacific that changes weather patterns worldwide and increases Atlantic storm activity? Check.

Yet zero storms formed. Surprised experts point to unusual persistent dry air and a few other factors. But each time they and computer simulations think something is brewing, nothing comes of it.

“It has been surprisingly and freakishly quiet in the Atlantic,” University of Miami hurricane researcher Brian McNoldy said, pointing out that weak Tropical Storm Colin fizzled out on July 2 and there’s been nothing since.

DB2

Yet zero storms formed. Surprised experts point to unusual persistent dry air and a few other factors. But each time they and computer simulations think something is brewing, nothing comes of it.

“It has been surprisingly and freakishly quiet in the Atlantic,” University of Miami hurricane researcher Brian McNoldy said, pointing out that weak Tropical Storm Colin fizzled out on July 2 and there’s been nothing since.

DB2,

Where no man has gone before. Climate change is the proper term. When things change, the models cannot forecast. This season is so far out of the parameters of what would be expected from a La Nina and very high water temps that any decent scientist would be seriously re-thinking his weather models.

I was talking to an avid fisherman here in Panama City Florida. In 150 foot deep water, the surface temp is still 86 degrees. The fish have
moved deeper and there is no top water activity. The bay waters are so hot that bait fish kept in cages must be kept under the docks and out of the sun so that they do not die of the heat. (We are talking 8 to 10 pound fish)

The small bait fish indigenous to the bay are all hidden in the grasses. They can be seen in the evening sun, but must of them have moved under structures for shade or in the deepest water where the grass cover is available. (Small pinfish, 3/4 to 1 1/4 inch long)

This year is a significant anomaly. We (those that have lived on the upper gulf coast a long time) are watching every thunderstorm and the wind shear carefully. There is enough energy that a Hurricane Humberto in 2007 is a worry.
Cheers
Qazulight

https://www.weather.gov/hgx/projects_humberto07

Introduction
Humberto was the first hurricane to make landfall in the United States since Wilma struck South Florida in October 2005 and the first hurricane to make landfall along the Texas coast since Rita struck the Texas-Louisiana area in September 2005. The intensification rate in Humberto was one of the highest that has ever been observed for an initially weak tropical cyclone. It is estimated that the cyclone strengthened from a 30 mph low into an 90 mph hurricane within 24 hours. This rapid increase in intensity is rare, and only three others storms (Celia/1970, Arlene and Flora/1963) have intensified more in 24 hours from below tropical storm strength. Humberto had a peak wind of 90 mph and a minimun central pressure of 985 mb when it made landfall around 2:00 AM CDT just east of High Island, TX.

Synopsis
For several days before the formation of Humberto, there were disorganized showers and thunderstorms that extended from western Cuba into the eastern Gulf of Mexico associated with an upper level low and a weak surface trough. Unfavorable wind shear initially prevented development of this system as it tracked slowly to the west-northwest. The shear began to relax on Tuesday the 11th, and early in the morning on Wednesday the 12th convection began to increase over a developing surface low pressure area. As the developing system began a northwest drift, quick organization was noted on radar imagery and buoy data. The disturbance was estimated to have become a depression at 4:00 AM CDT with the center located 120 miles south of Galveston. A ship report and radar data suggest that the depression quickly became a Tropical Storm Humberto around 7:00 AM, and it moved slowly to the north. MODIS satellite image of Humberto centered off the upper Texas coast (at 1655Z on 9/12/07) shortly before becoming a tropical storm.

Intense thunderstorm activity in well-defined spiral bands continued near the tropical storm, and the small tropical cyclone continued to rapidly strengthen just offshore of the upper Texas coast. Later in the day, Humberto turned to the north-northeast due to steering around a large middle-level high over the southeastern United States. Radar data indicate that Humberto became a hurricane about 20 miles south of High Island, Texas around 10:00 PM, and the cyclone reached an estimated peak intensity of 90 mph as it made landfall just east of High Island in McFaddin National Wildlife Refuge around 2:00 AM on Thursday the 13th. The hurricane moved over extreme southeastern Texas across the Beaumont/Port Arthur area, and entered southwestern Louisiana, weakening into a tropical storm about 75 miles west-northwest of Lafayette. The storm became a depression near Alexandria late on the 13th, and dissipated the next day over central Mississippi.

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Where no man has gone before. Climate change is the proper term. When things change, the models cannot forecast.

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Change are worthless?

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Catastrophe are alarmist politics?

The Captain

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Change are worthless?

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Catastrophe are alarmist politics?

The Captain,

Neither,

I am saying that the climate is changing and what it looks like in the different iterations of change and in the final (or at least long term) status is unknown.

This means that neither the alarmist, or those that say “Don’t look up” have any true data to base their next prediction on. This has actually been a nagging suspicion
of mine all along.

Most of the global warming models are pretty accurate, accurate in predicting the amount of energy being held in the ecosphere. However, the projections of what will happen in the weather has been poor at best. Other than knowing that there will be more of the surface of the earth covered by water, must of the other predictions, either short term, 5 to 10 years, or long term 25 to 100 years are not reliable.

Worse, the economic impacts at the MACRO level are even less known. We have observed that the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation is slowing, and the models predict a possibility of collapse. We know this will change weather patterns, we assume there will be winners and losers, the problem is, on a MACRO economic scale the time lines matter. A hundred year gradual change in weather has little global impact, a shorter, 20 year weather change can give rise to localized economic collapse and war.

When I say we don’t know, I mean, we don’t know.

Cheers
Qazulight

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When I say we don’t know, I mean, we don’t know.

Why plan based on what you don’t know?

My reply to the above is political and I don’t want to upset Wendy. :wink:

The Captain

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Change are worthless?

Actually by most objective measures, climate models have been remarkably accurate.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-mo…
https://www.science.org/content/article/even-50-year-old-cli…

For example, this describes projections for the American southwest published in 2010:

“Downscaled climate model projections show longer and more intense future droughts in the Colorado basin, and a high likelihood of worst-in-century droughts with multiyear flow deficits that exceed any in the observational record by 60–70%. If these climate scenarios materialize, we will have to prepare for deeper and historically more unusual water shortages, and the sustainability of current water deliveries from the Colorado River will become problematical. In summary, a view from a small, but representative selection of climate simulations…suggests a future where drought becomes more extreme by the mid to late 21st century. Inevitably, there will be precipitation shortages, and during these times, the resulting hydrological drought is aggravated by a trend toward much less snowpack, warmer temperatures (especially in summer) and diminished runoff and soil moisture.” https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0912391107

Anyone visit Lake Mead recently?

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Why plan based on what you don’t know?

We can plan for what we do know. We know that the ecosystem is taking on heat. We know that this heat is added heat that is held in by a blanket of chemicals. We know that human activity is adding to those chemicals faster than the earth can dispose of them. This we do know. It is a known known.

What we do not know is what the terminal state of the planet will be once humans stop, one way or another, adding chemicals to the atmosphere. Additionally, this hurricane season tells us something we already knew, we have a three body problem. Worse it tells us where we are at in the three body problem. We at the point where we must measure the present and recalculate the next position.

As people must make assumptions about the future, the know that something is changing without knowing how it is changing is significant problem for all of us that must make longer term choices.

Personally I see some givens.

The world will keep adding green house gasses to the environment faster than they can be dissipated for the foreseeable future.

This will keep adding energy to the ecosystem.

What we do not know is quite a bit larger.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Change are worthless?

Are you saying that the models that forecast Climate Catastrophe are alarmist politics?

What I am hearing has nothing to do with climate change models. Rather, it sounds to me like climate change is messing with mid-term weather forecasting. The changing climate is making forecasts for things like hurricane seasons less reliable.

You’ve got to keep track of cause and effect here.

–Peter

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What I am hearing has nothing to do with climate change models. Rather, it sounds to me like climate change is messing with mid-term weather forecasting. The changing climate is making forecasts for things like hurricane seasons less reliable.

Climate change models project probabilities. Higher greenhouse gas levels increases the likelihood that Great Britain will have a heat wave or Pakistan a severe monsoon season. That is how climate modeling can impact midterm weather forecasting.

Obesity increases the likelihood of certain diseases. Climate change “causes” California wildfires in the same way that excess weight “causes” type II diabetes.

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(CNN) The first hurricane of the Atlantic season, which debuted earlier this week, got its full billing Friday.

Danielle is now the season’s first hurricane, with sustained winds of 75 mph and even higher gusts, the National Hurricane Center said in its 11 a.m. ET update.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/02/weather/danielle-season-first…

Jaak

This will keep adding energy to the ecosystem.

In an entropic universe life can only exist in locations that gain enough energy to reverse local entropy. That’s why “Life exists at the edge of order and chaos.” Earth is like it is because life has made it so. Life is Terraforming!

I really liked Complexity: The Emerging Science at the Edge of Order and Chaos by M. Mitchell Waldrop. A book for non-scientists with an interest in science.

https://www.amazon.com/Complexity-Emerging-Science-Order-Cha…

My problem with Greens is the radicalism, they are willing to destroy the dwellers in order to save the house – so they say. But their real objective is control. Global Warming is the scariest scenario they have been able to come up with, they have coopted both government and academia in a fearsome, dictatorial, power loving coalition.

Elon Musk has shown how free enterprise can solve the Global Warming issue without the help of power grabbing dictators. Not just cars, SpaceX can build more efficient, reusable rockets than government, i.e. NASA. JFK’s going to the moon speech was memorable and right for the times but half a century later it’s time to privatise space.

The Captain

“Why go to the moon?” - John F. Kennedy at Rice University
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXqlziZV63k

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Elon Musk has shown how free enterprise can solve the Global Warming issue without the help of power grabbing dictators.

Reality check.

Tesla benefitted greatly from EV tax credits in the early days that helped make their Model 3 more price competitive. A big chunk of Tesla revenue still comes from the sale of carbon credits, to the tune of over $1.5B in 2021. Safe to say that Tesla growth would have been much slower (might even have gone bankrupt) without these government-based benefits.

“Green” policies helped make Tesla what it is today.

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“Green” policies helped make Tesla what it is today.

It would be stupidly idiotic, moronic, and absurd not to take the handouts the Climate Alarmist are giving out with YOUR TAX MONEY! Tesla thanks you!

The Captain

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It would be stupidly idiotic, moronic, and absurd not to take the handouts the Climate Alarmist are giving out with YOUR TAX MONEY! Tesla thanks you!

Exactly! Tesla is a demonstration of the effectiveness of green policies. Pretty obvious that if we left it up to the free market, there would be no mass-produced EV on the market today and the climate change future would be much more dire. Legacy car companies weren’t going to sacrifice their cash (IC) cows unless forced to do so.

The free market can do many things well, but choosing long-term benefits over short-term profits is not one of them. The market is very efficient at providing consumers with a plethora of potato chip and tobacco choices, but not very good at caring about or dealing with the long-term health impacts.

Tesla can build batteries very efficiently. But who is going to prevent Tesla from polluting the neighborhood with the toxic byproducts of that production? That’s why those living in the neighborhood need those annoying Greens.

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Exactly! Tesla is a demonstration of the effectiveness of green policies. Pretty obvious that if we left it up to the free market, there would be no mass-produced EV on the market today and the climate change future would be much more dire. Legacy car companies weren’t going to sacrifice their cash (IC) cows unless forced to do so.

A realistic view of reality with no need to demonize Tesla!

Have a REC!

The Captain