Yes, Hamas can be destroyed, but if hatred remains a new organization can emerge to replace it. We have discussed before how do you keep smuggled weapons out of Gaza. They say impossible–just like our southern border problem.
The Troubles in Ireland were resolved when people realized killing each other did not accomplish much. They decided to make peace. But was not easy to accomplish.
Of course a new organization can emerge to replace it. Those “new” organizations might already exist - after all, it might be the PIJ that steps in to fill the role of “new Hamas.” The point of the military combat isn’t to eradicate hatred - it’s to eradicate the specific organization that has the resources, the infrastructure, the weapons caches, the international connections, and the experienced personnel to carry out a 10/7. So that a 10/7 isn’t likely to be repeated over and over again.
The problem with analogs to the Troubles is that in Ireland, there was a way to eventually give both sides much of what they wanted. Even the most hard core Irish belligerents didn’t want or need the UK to be destroyed in order to achieve their aims. It was possible for the UK to grant Northern Ireland almost any degree of autonomy (from being totally controlled by the UK up to complete independence and inclusion in Ireland) while still existing. It was a conflict of interests, not basic existence for the UK.
Unfortunately, the reason that the conflict in Israel has been so intractable is that there is a non-trivial group of people who believe that the very existence of Israel is insupportable, and a non-trivial group of people who believe that any Palestinian state is an unthinkable security risk or is inconsistent with their “manifest destiny” view of an expansive Israeli state. Continuing to kill each other accomplishes a lot for those parties - it keeps them from ending up in an end state that they regard as intolerable.
I don’t think Hamas can be destroyed. Sure, they can take out some foot soldiers and maybe the top leaders. But they can’t kill everybody. In the meantime, we’ve all seen the pictures coming out of Gaza. Israel is creating more recruits than they are destroying.
I hear lots of ideas how to fix this. I don’t think this is fixable. The moral of the story of Abraham and Isaac is you don’t have to actually kill your own son. You just have to be willing to do it.
You can’t kill thought. After an Israeli bureaucrat tried to walk back “Bibi”'s statement that Israel will continue to control Gaza security, “Bibi” repeated it: Israel will control security in Gaza, and will only accept a government in Gaza to it’s liking, which is not the PA. Israeli troops on the streets, mounting raids, like they have on the west bank, and a quisling Pal government, is not going to soften attitudes in Gaza.
Steve
…and still requires hard work and prayer and determination so as to not fall back. It will take at least another generation before the topic becomes sufficiently boring and the causes obviously stupid before something as assinine as Brexit can so destabilize things as to threaten a return to carnage.
david fb
A potential blueprint of how peace could be maintained in the region:
The problem (for the Israelis) is that it would require them to both recognize Palestine as a sovereign entity and it would require them to stop the illegal settlements (and likely give up those that have already been built).
Hawkwin
Not volunteering to man any of those observation posts.
A peacekeeping force only works as long as the principals are willing to keep the peace.
The Captain
The US bought off Israel and Egypt. They agreed to play nice in exchange a whole bunch of money. The US has tried to buy off Israel and the Palestinians, but neither side has stayed bought.
If I were imperator, instead of sending them money to play nice which they won’t do, I’d try not sending them money for a while and see if that works. Worst case scenario is nothing changes, but at least we won’t be paying for it.
Yes, the UN is already in Gaza. How is it they don’t notice people launching rockets.
Israel’s problem is how to occupy Gaza effectively. Enough manpower so you can catch those firing rockets. But large enough to be secure from snipers and troublemakers. And with excellent communications that can be used to call for help. And not easy to block as happened 10/7.
I object to war. I object to the peace right this moment even more
News reports today say Quitar wants to broker a deal. Release of 50 hostages in return for a 3-day cease fire.
Is this a step in the right direction? At least peace discussions begin. But Hamas has time to regroup, rearm, etc.
Seems very unlikely. We could see a “women and children” deal (which is likely above 50) but a random 50? I would bet strongly against it. That would leave someone’s (or many someone’s) wife and child still as a hostage - a very untenable political result.
Now that Israel has reached the hospital in Gaza will they find Hamas tunnels and offices there? Or is this Iraq all over again?
What do you think? What is your opinion on the validity of tunnels under the hospital?
It has been known for some 15 years that Hamas has/had it HQ under Al Shifa hospital. I’ve posted about it a couple of times.
From this week:
US Says Hamas Using Tunnels Under Gaza Hospitals For Military Operations – And To Hide Hostages
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-says-hamas-using-tunnels-under-gaza-hospitals-for-military-operations-and-to-hide-hostages/ar-AA1jVD4J
DB2
Much of Hamas will not exist by the end of January or February. This debate over the hostages is not an out for them. The group wants more and won’t get anything. This is not over with the hostage release. Hamas needs to surrender. Islam. The Germans and the Japanese surrendered eventually. This must be decided.
IDF troops already overran another hospital in Gaza. They released video showing rooms with cartoony artwork on the walls, iirc, this was a children’s hospital, but the troops were pointing to bits of women’s clothing and bits of rope, as “proof” that hostages may have been held there. That video is in the first 35 seconds of this piece.
iirc, some time after the invasion of Iraq, a survey was done. The survey reported that the majority of Fox Noise viewers were sure that all the WMD claims the regime had made about Iraq had been proven: everything had been found.
DB2
And that resulted in the ongoing collapse of the Hamas military. Gaza was designed as a terror base, not for the conventional war Hamas got itself. What they did have was the old plan.
Over 10 years ago Gur Laish (former head of IAF Warfare Planning and director of the National Security Council Office of the Prime Minister) wrote an article for Military Strategy Magazine titled The Amorites Inequity – A Comparative Analysis of Israeli and Hamas Strategies in Gaza. The Hamas strategy was what he called “a stable situation of ongoing limited confrontation” that deliberately avoided provoking what he termed the Amorite Iniquity Effect.
That is a reference to Genesis 15, where the Amorites escaped retribution until its iniquities had exceeded a critical level. Once the Iniquity level got too bad it provoked a reaction that destroyed them.
DB2
