OT: Tremendous Lecture on Ignored Complex Palestine History

Macro and big world events are tightly connected, and so this post is OT but highly relevant…

I find almost all discussions of Israel Palestine horrifically shallow and spoken/written lost in myths and propaganda. Here is a solid Jewish scholar at Israel’s elite Shalem College teaching history to ignorant students. I have some disagreements with his statements, but he sure knows and discusses his history accurately and in detail, albeit from his own POV. Well worth a careful listen so as to arrive at least a beginning knowledge of crux history.

See you in comments below.

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After 22 minutes it’s great history but irrelevant. The Pilgrims were refugees. Should the USA return North America to the ‘native’ Americans? It won’t happen.

BTW, should a baby born today have to worry about what Catherine the Great or Moses did centuries ago? Absurd!

BTW, African slaves were not refugees in America so they have no claim on the land. Only refuges do. How about the Virginia trades? America should to go the Irish who were refugees of the potato famine

Great history but irrelevant!

The solution is to put a statute of limitation on claims to the land.

It’s the law in Venezuela which is what makes “invasions’” so dangerous.

The Captain



You are exactly right as to “law”, international and I think moral as well. But, what matters for me from this discussion is what people think and why. Beliefs.

Almost all the explanations of motivation and belief I hear and read are just plain wrong – oversimplified and erroneous.

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Words matter… if you can back them up. To me the two words that matter are, “Never again.” So far Israel has been able to back them up. “Never again” cannot be backed by pacifism.

Some words are absurd. If martyrs are rewarded in Heaven with 72 virgins, Muslims should thank Israel for creating so many happy souls. But Israel will only oblige when attacked. A snake eating its own tail.

Why hit the Iranian Embassy in Syria? Iran will retaliate and America will have no option than to intervene proving that the pacifist words from Washington were words that could not be backed in the face of reality on the ground.

david fb, care to comment?

The Captain

o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o

Prior to WWII, Ashkenazi Jews had become pacifists, god will take care of us or words to that effect. Live under the radar, do stuff goyim don’t want to do. Value liquidity, gold, diamonds, and money over land. As far as I know the turning point happened in the Warsaw ghetto. Younger people wanted to fight, elders wanted to remain pacifists.

Prior to WWII Jews were rewarded with citizenship in countries like Hungary and Romania if they defended the country. In Rumania the Seklers became border guards (this becomes personal as pointed out at the end).

Szeklers people - descendants from Attila’s Huns - were also brought to eastern and southeastern Transylvania as border guards.

which brings up the question, how did the Szeklers (modern Sekler) people become Jewish. Anything to do with the Khazars?

Where the Khazars dispersed after the fall of the Empire is subject to many conjectures. Proposals have been made regarding the possibility of a Khazar factor in the ethnogenesis of numerous peoples, such as the Hazaras, Hungarians, the Kazakhs, the Cossacks of the Don region and of Ukraine, the Muslim Kumyks, the Turkic-speaking Krymchaks and their Crimean neighbours the Crimean Karaites, the Moldavian Csángós, the Mountain Jews, even some Subbotniks (on the basis of their Ukrainian and Cossack origin and others).[20][21][22] The late 19th century saw the emergence of the theory that the core of today’s Ashkenazi Jews are descended from a hypothetical Khazarian Jewish diaspora which migrated westward from modern-day Russia and Ukraine into modern-day France and Germany. Linguistic and genetic studies have not supported the theory of a Khazar connection to Ashkenazi Jewry. The theory still finds occasional support, but most scholars view it with considerable scepticism.[23][19] The theory is sometimes associated with antisemitism[24] and anti-Zionism.[25]

Are Ashkenazi Jews caucasian?

Genetic studies indicate that Ashkenazim have both Levantine and European (mainly southern European) ancestry. These studies draw diverging conclusions about the degree and sources of European admixture, with some focusing on the European genetic origin in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, contrasting with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages.[23][24][25][26][27]

Note "Ashkenazi maternal lineages, contrasting with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages."

This is how conquest happened, kill the men and marry the women.

Yiddish Language

Yiddish, historically also Yidish-Taytsh, is a West Germanic language historically spoken by Ashkenazi Jews. It originates from 9th century Central Europe, providing the nascent Ashkenazi community with a vernacular based on High German fused with many elements taken from Hebrew (notably Mishnaic) and to some extent Aramaic. Most varieties of Yiddish include elements of Slavic languages and the vocabulary contains traces of Romance languages. Yiddish has traditionally been written using the Hebrew alphabet; however, there are variations, including the standardized YIVO orthography that employs the Latin alphabet.

BTW, German Jews looked down on East European Jews.

BTW2, my father was a German soldier in the Great War, one reason I was able to get a German passport that gave me access to most of Europe.

Now try to unravel all this with some simplistc theories.



Oversimplification, usually based on ignorance but too often also on hatred and spite, is my primary complaint with most of the “commentary” I hear on Israeli Palestinian woes.

My only recommendation to most of my friends there is a miserable one: that they should leave if they can, establish life in a safer saner place, and help from afar.

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The lens can be used on Americans right now to a failed purpose of immigration haters.

The US debt is the force of economics and military in the US.

The solutions I want for the Arabs would settle things at a cost to the Israelis. If the Arabs were more republican their countries would be a much greater force. The Arabs today are their own ugly problem. Sometimes Israel Israel Israel needs to be given a big rest.