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Yeah, I get you’re trying to be funny, but this kind of thing is not funny, and it’s BS like this that plays into a lot of the divisiveness in the US today.

Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.

The south has a culture. It’s rich and wonderful with dark spots.

What is the Southern culture? Please, tell me. All I have seen is:

Music = twangy country music. Oh sorry, Elvis.
Food = fried carp or charred meat brushed with sugary sauce.
Universities = football camps.
Idea of heaven = God, guns and bourbon.
All stereotypes but all too prevalent.

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Sorry my experience living in NC offends you so much that you have to make up horrible lies about me and how I interacted with my friends and colleagues there.

It’s actually a great place to live . . . as long as you can overlook the deep-seated racist ideas that have fomented there since the Civil War. . . and as long as you are White. But hey, the South’s gonna do it again.

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Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.

Who is? Individuals, sure. The south’s got moronic asshats just like “the north.” (Donald Trump, anyone?)

Southern culture is as varied as any other culture. The Blues were born—and are still much loved—here in Memphis. Also arguably Memphis was the birthplace of Rock and Roll. Stax records, here in Memphis, was the second largest producer of soul music after Motown. Athens, Georgia produced bands like REM and the B-52s, and kind of led the way for a lot of Indie rock back in the 80’s and 90’s. If you think Nashville only produces twangy country music, you’re not paying attention. Last I checked, Austin’s music scene was hot.

Food—yeah, catfish and barbecue ARE awesome. It’s too bad that great southern town of New Orleans has no food culture and there’s just not a good restaurant to be found there (or famous chefs. Or good music, for that matter).

Yeah, the south has some terrible universities, too. William and Mary has only produced 4 US presidents and has virtually no notable alumni… same with Rice, SMU, Virginia Tech and many others.

I’m not even going to comment on the God, guns and bourbon remarks.

Really, if that’s all you think of the south, you’re not paying attention or just staying in your bubble. And anything I or anyone else says is not going to change your mind, I guess.

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Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.

You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU

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Or maybe they were being as polite as they could because yet another “damn Yankee” was telling them how superior northerners are and how we should do things the same as you.

I wonder how many times he heard “Well Bless Your Heart” and thought it was a complement.

IP

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I wonder how many times he heard “Well Bless Your Heart” and thought it was a complement.

I wonder if Southerners understand how hypocritical it is to say that, compared to a New Yorker’s open and loud expression of the same emotion.

If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, …?

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Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.

You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU

And that’s funny too. So I guess that ingrained bias is another thing most Americans have in common. I love NYC and Boston, not having visited the other three extensively enough to have an opinion. I grew up in the Boston area and loved at least the 3 short seasons that were not Winter, but moved at 20, not being able to envision affording a home there. Boston is a great walkable city, but you would be insane to drive around in it. Add in the transit system and you are good to go. Ditto for NYC and their transit system.

That said, we chose to move South in retirement, after living here, there and just about everywhere. Great choice.

IP

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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, …?

More gross generalizations. You do know the “South” is a big diverse place, right?

IP

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I can offer a semi-southerner’s POV.

I was born and raised in Texas. My mom and dad were hopeless racists. The N-word was never far from Mom’s lips. Dad even used the word to a black nurse when he was in the hospital for an operation to remove a colon cancer (By then in his '70s.)

When I was about 4-5 we moved to Georgia for Dad’s work. This was during WW-2, for a point of reference. My racist, bigoted father was horrified at what he saw and learned first hand about real racism in Georgia. He told about black women being arrested on Friday night, and on Monday the white women would come to the police station and pay their bail so they could work the next week as a cleaning maid. I was too young to understand at the time. I have one memory from that time. There was a black woman who lived alone in the woods near our house. Her name was N_____ Annie. That was what we all called her. She did laundry in a huge open pot in her yard.

Dad told about a woman who never said “Yankee”. It was always “Damn Yankee.” The memories of Sherman’s march to the sea had not died down at that time.

I don’t know how long we stayed there (Hey, I was only 5!), but we pretty soon moved back to Texas. This was during WW-2, for a point of reference.

I don’t have much in the way of actual memories from the era, but when it offended my racist dad, it had to have been bad.

In the army in the early 1960’s I was stationed at Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville Alabama. Going to Missile schoool there. One of the guys in my class was a black guy. He was very uncomfortable being in Alabama. Once he had to drive into town for something. I don’t recall what. Driver’s license or Social Security, but he was afraid. Sure enough he got rear ended by a white woman. He was pleasantly surprised that she was apologetic, and gave him her insurance information. Maybe times had changed. At least in Huntsville.

Some years later I worked at a valve company in Rhode Island (Where, incidentally, I heard the N-word more often than I did down south). We had a large scale test on one of our valves in Huntsville. At dinner, one of the Southern engineers taunted me by saying, “You aren’t a Southern Gentleman until you have dipped your pen in black ink.”

Would I want to live in the South? No way.

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f Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, … - knightof3

===========================

Wow… your view of Southerners rates right up their with Peter Strzok’s “Smelly Walmart People”.

Concerning your prejudices, here is something concerning denigration of Southerners Education that I’ll bet you didn’t know…

https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/Sc…

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"If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, …?"

Seems that ‘northern culture’ and ‘California Culture’ can’t keep people from fleeing the northern states for ‘southern hospitality’.

“With a perfect storm of aging residents, low birth rates, COVID-19 deaths and immigration cutbacks, 16 states saw population decreases last year as the United States experienced the slowest national population growth since the Great Depression.”

"The big gainers were Texas, up about 374,000 people for the year, and Florida, "

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta…

Seems BBQ, back yard BBQ grills, football, more football, sitting around the swimming pool beat the ‘northern culture’ of ice fishing, chopping cords of firewood for weeks before winter starts in October, burning those cords of wood in wood stoves spewing pollution all winter long, freezing on weekends, longing for the 8 weeks of actual summer when it finally arrives in July…meanwhile, in September, they’re getting the snow blowers ready, putting on snow ties on cars, fighting mobs to get to work in horrible weather conditions of ice and snow…raking leaves. Oh, right Maple Syrup season in VT.

Yeah, if you want the symphony better live in Dallas or Houston or Phoenix. Same for up north in western MA or southern VT. Or most of WI or MI outside of two cities there.

You can have your ‘square dances’ and other ‘northern culture’ stuff. Remember, Jazz started in the south. So did Elvis Presley. Half the ‘rock and roll’ legends. But Motown wasn’t a southern invention , was it…

Northern culture? Pizza in Chicago…cheese and more cheese in WI?

Yeah, live in NYC or Wash DC or Boston - you’ve got a hundred ‘cultural activities’. Can most people afford Broadway shows at $200/ticket?

Where ever you choose the live there are loads of activities…

Lived in NYC area…wouldn’t want to go back again. Visit a few times and skedaddle. Culture? Most folks only associated with similar folks.

Lived in Chicago area. Same deal. Most folks associated with similar folks.

Lived in Central VA…OK if you’re a ‘been saved’ person and there again, most folks associated with other folks. “Ya’ll come back, ya hear!”… “Ain’t got but one”… oh and ‘country ham, red eye gravy’…

Now in the Dallas suburbs. Same deal. Neighborhood is 1/3 Asian. 2% black. Everyone is friendly but most associate only with people with similar interests. No different. Oh, and we got a symphony, FOOTBALL, soccer, hockey, world class museums, world class education, top rated schools, a growing population, great county Jr college/vocational system, etc. Ethnic food of all types. And of course, every chain restaurant. 10 different food stores including Japanese market, India market, HEB, Walmart, Kroger, Tom THumb, ALbertsons, Aldi, etc.

You can afford a house here… not where I grew up. Heck, my parents 800 sq foot starter home, bought for likke $16K in 1948, after two additions is nearly a million bucks to buy. You gotta be making $350,000/yr to afford something like that… but you can buy my 2400 sq foot house for $350,000 here. With pool.

No cheese heads here. Better pizza in Chicago but we don’t do bad and even have ‘deep dish’ that isn’t too bad. We have German restaurants and Polish…Vietnamese…Lebanese…Greek…New Orleans Sytle…Fish of all kinds (lobster not so much). So

As to classical ‘southern comfort’…not there…or anywhere these days. Mostly fiction. Same for ‘northern culture’… TV has evened out just about everything from Des Moines to Pittsburgh, to Moline to Charleston, WV…to Jackson MS to Miami FL.

t.

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In the army in the early 1960’s I was stationed at Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville Alabama.
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Maybe times had changed. - CNC


Wow. Sixty years of racial progress, such as the Voting Right Act, and you use the word “maybe”. Sad.

You don’t have to want to live in the South to recognize the tremendous progress that has been made over the years, not only in the South but everywhere.

Despite what the liberals like to scream, American is not a racist country. Sure there are incidents, and pockets of bad people but they are routinely condemned by most people on all sides. Mostly, I mean the vast majority, of Americans hold no animus towards other people regardless of race. Most just want to live their lives, take care fo their families, avoid conflict of any sort, and enjoy a peaceful existence.

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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, …?

After 20 years of living in Texas and Louisiana, the thing that surprised me the most.

While they complain about taxes, they’re actually willing to pay extra money for crappier results as long as blacks and Hispanics suffer even more. It was a wonder to observe.

The most blatant example of this was forgoing billions of dollars in Obamacare tax credits and Medicaid funding while rural hospitals were closing.

intercst

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Some years later I worked at a valve company in Rhode Island (Where, incidentally, I heard the N-word more often than I did down south).

The Boston area and Rhode Island (RI is basically just a Boston suburb), is about the most racist area of the country. Pro athletes report that they hear the “N-word” more frequently in Boston than anywhere else. You have little kids in the stands yelling it at them while sitting next to their parents.

https://www.complex.com/sports/2017/05/ugly-history-boston-b…

intercst

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Not specifically OK, no. I lived in KS for four years, and I’ve visited NE as well. OK is sort of southern KS.

It’s miles and miles of miles and miles…wheat as far as the eye can see. I guess from a retirement perspective, it’s cheap there. And there is decent medical there if you live near the right city. One of my neighbors recently moved to OK. Sold her house, paid cash for a lot more land with about the same size house (so she said). Pretty rural area (2 hours from one of the big cities…forget which one).

Wasn’t commenting on their intelligence. OK has some good colleges. And, yes, you can find good/friendly people everywhere. Even red states.

1poorguy (would only move to the mid-west ever again for the lower cost of living)

If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? … least vaccinated, …?

Least vaccinated states certainly not all in the South! Data published 4 days ago. Idaho takes #1 for least vaccinated:

These are the 10 states with the lowest partial vaccination rates in the country, according to the most recent data:
Idaho (52.6%)
Mississippi (56.4%)
Wyoming (56.5%)
Louisiana (58.2%)
Indiana (58.6%)
Alabama (59.2%)
Tennessee (59.3%)
Ohio (61.2%)
Georgia (61.8%)
Montana (62.4%)

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-state…

Least vaccinated states half in the South, half in the North. The interactive map at the link is pretty interesting.

Your bias is showing. You are a smart guy. Please fact check yourself before spreading misinformation.

IP

IP

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Could it be that you, not me, are the one who believes that theirs is the only opinion that matters?

You’re both wrong. Mine is the only opinion that matters.

:slight_smile:

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Gotta disagree with the food. Not all southern food is great, but a lot of it is. A properly done southern fried chicken is wonderful. Cajun is southern (and really good). I’m not fond of the mustardy BBQ they seem to favor there, but a lot of people love it. There is a legit cuisine that is unique to them, largely stemming from “peasant food” when they had to cook whatever they had handy.

You can find good food in almost every region on the planet.

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Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.

There are those of us who advocate dissolving the union. Call it 52 Pick-up. I can see the West Coast States (Plus Hawaii?) becoming a country called Cascadia, or maybe Oceania. (George Orwell may have the patent on the name.) The Northeast could become Yankeeland. The old Southern Confederacy could reconstitute itself, although Texas feels it could exist as a separate nation on its own. Other states could associate however they wanted.

CNC

Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.

You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU

And that’s funny too. So I guess that ingrained bias is another thing most Americans have in common. I love NYC and Boston, not having visited the other three extensively enough to have an opinion.

I have lived in Seattle, Boston, and LA. Love all three. (Well, there are the winters to consider in Boston…) Love to visit San Fran and NYC, although both “put on airs” about their culcha. I am biased towards places with an ocean. San Francisco affects the title “The City” as if there aren’t any others around.

I found the Bostonians (Maybe it’s just the Northeast) are amazingly ignorant about geography. They seem to confuse Portland (OR) and San Francisco. Their eyeglasses don’t seem to be able to focus on anything west of the Hudson river. I had a little quiz I would sometimes give: 1) What is the furthest north major US city? 2.) Which is further north, Boston or Rome? 3.) If you were to fly due south out of New York, over how many south American countries would you fly?

While we are bad mouthing certain parts of the country, isn’t the Northeast notoriously rude?

CNC

  1. Seattle
  2. They are on the same latitude.
  3. None. NYC is west of them all.