Ukraine Never Would Be NATO or EU Member

Well I’m confused. The Ukraine NEVER would be permitted entry into NATO & EU but not publicly announced. Err no one perceive this might tilt the Russian decision to invade? Or is Zelensky lying?

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/fzgps/date/2022-03-20/segme…
ZAKARIA: You know, you have said recently that Ukraine perhaps will not be a member of NATO. You have admitted that. Could that – there are people who ask, could that concession, had you made it clearly and loudly earlier, could that have prevented this war?

ZELENSKY:But everyone in the West told me that we do not have any chance of NATO or E.U. membership. I asked them not to drive the Ukrainian people into a corner because our people are brave and the West should also be brave in telling directly to the Ukrainian people that, well, you are not going to be a NATO-E.U. member. They do not have a consolidated position and I requested that personally.

I requested them personally to say directly that we are going to accept you into NATO in a year or two or five. Just say it directly and clearly or just say no, and the response was very clear, you are not going to be a NATO or E.U. member, but publicly the doors will remain open.

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In politics it is not called lying because it is lying. It is being publicly pragmatic. NATO was not going to let me him so why anger the bear.

Putin is right we will take Ukraine into NATO eventually. But Putin as a human being is wrong to exist.

Reading the entire interview, Zelensky suggests it is the rope sellers that obstructed Ukrainian membership in the EU ant NATO, throwing his country under the bus, for profit from Russian trade.

Steve

I wonder if the Ukraine was a long term intelligence operation to further weaken Russia.
Step #1:Add former Warsaw Pact members to NATO bringing NATO right up to Russia’s border.
Step #2:Use CIA to aid & add to discontentment in Ukraine for a coup against favored Russian Ukrainian leader. Also alluding to a promise to join the EU as an added reason for a revolt.
Step 3:Keep NATO/EU ban private to further enrage the Russian Bear to precipitous action.
Step #4:Military aid to the Ukraine. Fighting to the last Ukrainian to degrade Russian military & perhaps create a coup within Russia.

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We do not have as much control as the rest would give us.

Putin is driving the bus. He does not have to be.

The Ukraine Russia war is now a western economic tool.

The thread on India skipping out on sanctions is interesting. But only because proportionately India does not count much economically.

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tj,

I think you are way over thinking it.

Ukraine was there to be in a war because of the power between the west and Russia. This will be a long war. The war is a properly full blown reason to take control economically for the west.

Step #1:Add former Warsaw Pact members to NATO bringing NATO right up to Russia’s border.

I’m pretty sure, thirty years ago, Russia considered the western edge of the Warsaw Pact as “it’s” border. It certainly treated Hungary and Czechoslovakia as it’s territory when the locals went off the reservation.

Steve

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I wonder if the Ukraine was a long term intelligence operation to further weaken Russia.

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No that is just misinformation being spread by pro-Russians.

Ukrainians have closer ties to EU countries on its borders than Russia. Ukrainians wanted to have democracy and economic prosperity of EU countries. Ukrainians wanted to get rid of corruption that robs the country of benefits and services. Ukrainians had two revolutions to that end.

Putin could not stand to have the Ukrainians being democratic, eliminating corruption, and having a economy better than Russians. Putin wanted to destroy that dream like Stalin destroyed it in the 1930s. But Putin has made a big blunder invading Ukraine. He has lost on the world stage economically, politically, and militarily. He is a pariah.

Jaak

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The thread on India skipping out on sanctions is interesting. But only because proportionately India does not count much economically.

South & Central America countries are not sanctioning either.
The Swiss are acting as brokers for Russian oil.
Business is business.
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-and-its-war-in-ukraine-how-swis…

tj,

The problem for Russia is the need for dollars and euros.

If you sell something you need to buy something.

The third world often has little money to be much of a market either way.

tj,

The problem for Russia is the need for dollars and euros.
Yep and oil is usually sold for dollars. The Swiss are brokering oil sales.

tj,

The problem for Russia is the need for dollars and euros.
Yep and oil is usually sold for dollars. The Swiss are brokering oil sales.


As I said the first time the buyers left over outside of the west and China (that already has its sources) consume far less oil.

The only sticky spot is the Saudis who want our support against Yemen and are refusing to pump more. The US and others in time will make up the difference. Iran will be coming online. The Saudis are giving up top dollar. The price wont stay this high forever.