A pair of EV car articles

#1
https://grist.org/transportation/washington-electric-vehicle…
Four years ago, Nicole Macri, a Washington state representative from Seattle, met Matthew Metz for coffee. Metz had founded Coltura, an organization advocating for the end of gasoline, a few years earlier. He explained his vision for the state: to stop the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2030, just 12 years on.

/ snip

So what happened to turn the end of gasoline-powered cars from a radical idea into a legislative reality? Experts told Grist that economic, political, and cultural factors have been colliding to create the conditions for this seemingly sudden shift.

#2
https://grist.org/article/batteries-are-getting-cheap-so-why…
Batteries are getting cheap. So why aren’t electric vehicles?
In 2015, the average price paid for an EV was around $36,000. Now, it's over $63,000.

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The linked Grist article says “Fast forward to today, and Washington state has officially taken on the 2030 target, after almost adopting it last year. Governor Jay Inslee signed the broader “Move Ahead Washington” transportation package into law at the end of March, setting a deadline for all new cars registered in the state to be electric. It’s not a mandate, but the timeline is the most aggressive in the country.”

So, it’s not a mandate. What is it?

DB2

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Batteries are getting cheap. So why aren’t electric vehicles?

Because price is not limited by cost but by what the market will bear. As long as EV makers have long waiting lists that outpace their production capacity they see no need to make less profit. Once EVs become plentiful commodities, prices will start to drop. That’s the time to get out of TSLA!

The Captain

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So, it’s not a mandate. What is it?

I’m all in favor of EVs (or any other non-gas technology)
But it is not realistic to think that there will be no gas cars sold in WA in 2030.
These are just dreams and wishes if they don’t actually contribute something, within the state, to achieve this other than a document or a vote.
Where is their EV manufacturing plant or battery plant?
Are they opening up mines for the raw materials needed for batteries or motors?

Mike

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Where is their EV manufacturing plant or battery plant?
Are they opening up mines for the raw materials needed for batteries or motors?

Mike

LOTSA stuff to crank into the equation. LOTS.

Bring a simple person, here I can’t get past the ‘refueling’ thing during a trip, having to find a charging station, then potentially (likely???) ‘having to wait your turn’, then taking the time to get your fix of coulombs.

What does one, and one’s family do, pray tell, while waiting on your download of coulombs?

(God help you if you go dead and dormant out in the middle of nowhere!)

All the other factors are at play, to be sure. Not the least of which is the massive expense of a new battery.

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Bring a simple person, here I can’t get past the ‘refueling’ thing during a trip,

Tesla has shown everyone how to build the cars and the charging network.
So it can be done.

My complaint is with the politicians that just want to declare and end date to the selling of gas cars without taking any local action to enable it to be done.

Sure, if you’ve not driven a long distance in an EV you don’t know how easy it can be so you assume the worst.

Just as an example, if driving from SF to LA on I-5 there are two charging locations with over 50 charging stalls and another on with ~18 being upgraded to ~100. There are a few more with a dozen or more. Why so many? I’m guessing that Tesla tracks where people charge while on trips.

Mike

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“Bring a simple person, here I can’t get past the ‘refueling’ thing during a trip, having to find a charging station, then potentially (likely???) ‘having to wait your turn’, then taking the time to get your fix of coulombs.”

Just got back from 9 day trip - 3400 miles. Did 900 miles the last two days. Took 15 min max at gas station. Fill up and rest room. Every 350-375 miles before looking for gas. Car said I could do $550 miles on a tank. Never tried that. . I’d hate to think how horrible looking for a charger every 175 miles would be…didn’t see single EV charger on the way home. You got to get off, wander around to a hotel or similar with a WORKING charger. It seems that 33% of chargers are BROKEN and stay broken for weeks/months awaiting parts. Or someone even caring about them.

There was a 4 bay Tesla charger at the hotel where we had our convention in Traverse City MI … but not a Tesla in sight. Maybe summer time when rates there are $289/night. Plus tax. If you can afford that, guess you can afford Tesla with extra battery capacity to get there from Detroit, etc.

I’ll wait for 400 mile batteries, 90% recharge in 15 minutes and a guaranteed 100,000 mile warranty on battery. no mileage discount. Full replacement if croaks.

t.

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Mike:“Just as an example, if driving from SF to LA on I-5 there are two charging locations with over 50 charging stalls and another on with ~18 being upgraded to ~100. There are a few more with a dozen or more. Why so many?”

Cuz you can’t drive from LA to SF without stopping for juice and they sell a gazillion Teslas in California due to $6/gal gasoline prices there.

Probably more Teslas in CA than in rest of country combined.

t.

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Probably more Teslas in CA than in rest of country combined.

t.

See’em ‘all over the place’. (In OC CA.) Without probing, I’d posit that is a true statement.

GREAT (very expensive) GOLF CARTS!

CA is the land of fruits, nuts, and loony tunes.

(Out west, routine trips of >500 miles are NOT the exception.)

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Probably more Teslas in CA than in rest of country combined.

Current EV registrations in the US
https://electrek.co/2021/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-t…
California 42%

DB2

Cuz you can’t drive from LA to SF without stopping for juice and they sell a gazillion Teslas in California due to $6/gal gasoline prices there.

One group of anti-EVers say that there is no place to charge.

When presented with facts of how many chargers actually exist another group gives the gas prices as reason why so many have elected to buy an EV. For all those that say they never see any EV chargers that is because they usually don’t have 50’ high signs advertising themselves since the GPS map in the car shows you where they are.

You can drive from SF to LA with just one 10-15 min recharge along the way. More and more people are discovering this and Tesla is out in front of the trend installing lots of chargers to be ready for the busy holiday travels.

The system isn’t perfect and it isn’t quite as convenient as gas stations but it is very workable.

Mike

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One group of anti-EVers say that there is no place to charge…

another group gives the gas prices as reason why so many have elected to buy an EV…

The system isn’t perfect and it isn’t quite as convenient as gas stations but it is very workable.

These are the reasons I no longer reply to anti EV, anti Tesla posts. The infrastructure is evolving, far from perfect but progressing along the Technology Adoption Lifecycle (TALC) https://softwaretimes.com/pics/talc-800.png

In my estimation the technology is at the begining of ‘pragmatist’ (very workable?).

The Captain

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The system isn’t perfect and it isn’t quite as convenient as gas stations but it is very workable.

I don’t know … sometimes the EV system seems better to me. For example, while I’m home, I can’t gas up my ICE vehicle, but I can easily “electric” up my EV vehicles. And, even better, a few weeks ago on a trip, the hotel had a bunch of EV chargers … and using them was included in the price of staying there, so I had zero incremental cost to “electric” up my car. That was absolutely delightful, and rather convenient for me.

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I don’t know … sometimes the EV system seems better to me.

Meanwhile, on last evenings national “news” hysteria parade: hackers attacking EV charging stations.

Steve

Meanwhile, on last evenings national “news” hysteria parade: hackers attacking EV charging stations.

I didn’t even hear about this … not on social media, not anywhere.

Steve, I think you watch the news too much. Maybe take a break from it? About 30 years ago, CNN broke the news, and shortly thereafter I stopped watching that kind of news … cold turkey. And I was a news junkie, I watched the news at 6pm, at 10pm on fox, at 11pm on CBS/NBC/ABC, and nightline at 11:30. Even the Sunday in depth news features sometimes. And then, probably in 1990-91, I stopped completely. Luckily I only got cable after that, so never was infected with the 24 hour news virus.

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Steve, I think you watch the news too much.

Watch from 6-7pm, local at 11:00 and BBC from 11:30-12:00

Like it or not, the blather that is passed off as “news” moves the world we live in. The media can create panics and shortages overnight. Ever wonder what the heck people were doing hoarding toilet paper two years ago? “News” blather.

Steve

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Like it or not, the blather that is passed off as “news” moves the world we live in.

No wonder you live in LaLaLaLaLaLand. Turn it off and get a life.

The Captain
recovered TV addict

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t: Cuz you can’t drive from LA to SF without stopping for juice and they sell a gazillion Teslas in California due to $6/gal gasoline prices there.

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I never could drive my ICE vehicles from SF to LA without stopping for gasoline before I-5. And After I-5 was built I would still prefer to buy gasoline on the way to LA because it was cheaper than SF gasoline. But on all my trips I still needed at least 2 rest breaks for restroom, food and/or coffee.

Jaak

It’s 381 miles from LA to SF…mapquest has it at 6 hours 11 minutes - give or take the extra time from where you are to where you want to go in LA or the other way.

Most cars can go 381 miles on a tank of gas.

I think only super Tesla $120,000 models might have that range…barely. Most EVs are out of juice in 200 miles…or you’ll be looking for a charger likely at 175 miles and the chargers only give you a 90% charge…so you might have to stop twice in an EV.

In an ICE, maybe one bathroom break.

t.

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Most cars can go 381 miles on a tank of gas.

I think only super Tesla $120,000 models might have that range…barely

The current Tesla Model 3 has a range of 353 miles for about $50K.
If you stopped at a 250kw Supercharger for 5 minutes you’d get enough charge to make it.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43…

And, the other 80 or 90% of the time when you charge at work or home it is more convenient.
No messy gas fumes, no stopping for gas when you are in a hurry.
No credit card ID theft from the card skimmers on hacked pumps.

Mike

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